Can anyone enlighten me on the strength of 24 Pz Div around late Dec'44 early Jan'45. I'm interested in its status both prior to its move to East Prussia and when it arrived around Jan 19th 1945. My only source refers to it arriving in bits and pieces, having a supposed new shipment of tanks confiscated by 5 Pz Div upon arrival at Korschen and subsequently fighting with as a strong KG under the name Kamfgruppe 'Einem'. Any Information most welcome.
Cheers
KG-Einem/24th Pz Div early Jan'45
Moderator: Tom Houlihan
-
Roger Griffiths
- Associate
- Posts: 925
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:24 am
- Location: UK
Hi Don,
24PD was never strong in 1944/45. The Return of 1Jan45 listing would run to 7 or 8 pages of A4. So, some extracts.
Personnel 13,492/10,992 (Establ./Actual)
Stug III -/1/3 (Establ./Runners/Short Term Repair)
Panzer IV 132/31/21
Panther 79/-/-
SPW/Armd. Cars/etc. 257/58/24
sIG(Sfl) 12/3/3
Kettenkrad+M/c's 464/186/77
Cars 589/373/102
Maultiere 114/98/27
Trucks 1,587/629/137
Tonnage Carrying Capacity 3,700/579/413
Tracked Tractors 126/52/35
RSO -/5/3
Pak 40 13/27/3
Artillery Guns 43/34/3
MG's 1,239/535/-
Roger
24PD was never strong in 1944/45. The Return of 1Jan45 listing would run to 7 or 8 pages of A4. So, some extracts.
Personnel 13,492/10,992 (Establ./Actual)
Stug III -/1/3 (Establ./Runners/Short Term Repair)
Panzer IV 132/31/21
Panther 79/-/-
SPW/Armd. Cars/etc. 257/58/24
sIG(Sfl) 12/3/3
Kettenkrad+M/c's 464/186/77
Cars 589/373/102
Maultiere 114/98/27
Trucks 1,587/629/137
Tonnage Carrying Capacity 3,700/579/413
Tracked Tractors 126/52/35
RSO -/5/3
Pak 40 13/27/3
Artillery Guns 43/34/3
MG's 1,239/535/-
Roger
-
Roger Griffiths
- Associate
- Posts: 925
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:24 am
- Location: UK
-
Kamen Nevenkin
- Contributor
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2002 12:27 am
- Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
On 4 January 1945 24.PzD received an order to pull out of the front and transfer to Rastenburg (East Prussia) to rest, refit and reorganize (It was to be deployed there as an exchange for the rehabilitated 20.PzD that was to be moved to Hungary). It was to be fully operational by 15 January. Furthermore, the division was ordered to leave behind all of its panzers, StuG, PzSpWg, leSPW and mSPW. The recently created Panzerjäger Abteilung 40 was the most unfortunate unit of the division - it had just been issued with 21 factory-new PzIV/70.
On 5 January another order was issued, that was dealing with the reorganization and the rehabilitation of 24.PzD. According to it the following replacements were to be provided: four Marsch-Btl (each with 300 men), two companies [a total of 300 men replacements for the divisional SPW-Btl], 31 PzIV, 14 PzIV/70, 16 PzSpWg, 30 leSPW, 140 mSPW. Moreover, I./PzR 24, which was stationed at the Fallingbostel training ground, was ordered to move to Rastenburg to join its parent division. It (according to an instruction issued in the beginning of January) was to receive 40 PzV in East Prussia. On 12 January, however, the Abteilung entrained for Hungary and never joined 24.PzD.
The first units detrained in Rastenburg on 17 January. Some replacements reached their final destination too. In particular, the division received during the second half of January approx. 2 300 recruits, 31 PzIV (on 17 January), 14 PzIV/70 (on 15 January), 3 leSPW, 104 mSPW and 15 sPzSpWg. Meanwhile on 13 January the Red Army mounted a full scale offensive against the German grouping in East Prussia and shortly afterwards the German defense was penetrated. In view of the critical situation the first units of 24.PzD that had arrived in East Prussia were consolidated into a battle group ("von Einem") and on 18 January were rushed to the front. The rest of the division was given some time to refit and for that purpose was deployed west of Rastenburg. Thus 24.PzD was split into two main groups.
According to a reported dated 21 January, the following units were in process of refitting near Rastenburg: Stab/24.PzD, Stab and Stabsschwadron/PzR 24, both Versorgungs-Kompanien of I. and II./PzGR 21, 1./PzGR 26, Stab of II./PzGR 26, 5., 6. and (half of)7./PzGR 26, I./PzArtR 89, II./PzArtR 89 (less 4.Batterie), 8. and 9./PzArtR 89, Heeres-Flak-Art-Abt 283 (less 1. Batterie), PzAA 24 and a half of PzNachrichten-Abt 86.
Kampfgruppe "von Einem", which on 19 January went into action north of Willenberg, comprised (as per report of 22 January) of PzGR 21, 10. and 11./PzR 24 (with 14 PzIV and 10 PzIV respectively), 1./PzJgAbt 40 (with 10 JgPzIV), 4./PzArtR 89, one platoon of 3./Heeres-Flak-Art-Abt 283 (5 x 2-cm Flak) and some supply troops.
24.PzD was arriving in East Prussia piecemeal and when on 23 January the Soviet forces reached the Baltic coast in the vicinity of Elbing, thus cutting the Heeresgruppe "Mitte" from the rest of the Wehrmacht, some of the elements of the division were still underway. Thus PzJgAbt 40 (without 1. Kompanie), the main portion of PzNachrichten-Abt 86 and 60% of Feldgendarmerie-Trupp 40 were separated from their parent division and shortly afterwards were assigned to 4.PzD. They remained with the latter till the end of the war.
Hope this helps
On 5 January another order was issued, that was dealing with the reorganization and the rehabilitation of 24.PzD. According to it the following replacements were to be provided: four Marsch-Btl (each with 300 men), two companies [a total of 300 men replacements for the divisional SPW-Btl], 31 PzIV, 14 PzIV/70, 16 PzSpWg, 30 leSPW, 140 mSPW. Moreover, I./PzR 24, which was stationed at the Fallingbostel training ground, was ordered to move to Rastenburg to join its parent division. It (according to an instruction issued in the beginning of January) was to receive 40 PzV in East Prussia. On 12 January, however, the Abteilung entrained for Hungary and never joined 24.PzD.
The first units detrained in Rastenburg on 17 January. Some replacements reached their final destination too. In particular, the division received during the second half of January approx. 2 300 recruits, 31 PzIV (on 17 January), 14 PzIV/70 (on 15 January), 3 leSPW, 104 mSPW and 15 sPzSpWg. Meanwhile on 13 January the Red Army mounted a full scale offensive against the German grouping in East Prussia and shortly afterwards the German defense was penetrated. In view of the critical situation the first units of 24.PzD that had arrived in East Prussia were consolidated into a battle group ("von Einem") and on 18 January were rushed to the front. The rest of the division was given some time to refit and for that purpose was deployed west of Rastenburg. Thus 24.PzD was split into two main groups.
According to a reported dated 21 January, the following units were in process of refitting near Rastenburg: Stab/24.PzD, Stab and Stabsschwadron/PzR 24, both Versorgungs-Kompanien of I. and II./PzGR 21, 1./PzGR 26, Stab of II./PzGR 26, 5., 6. and (half of)7./PzGR 26, I./PzArtR 89, II./PzArtR 89 (less 4.Batterie), 8. and 9./PzArtR 89, Heeres-Flak-Art-Abt 283 (less 1. Batterie), PzAA 24 and a half of PzNachrichten-Abt 86.
Kampfgruppe "von Einem", which on 19 January went into action north of Willenberg, comprised (as per report of 22 January) of PzGR 21, 10. and 11./PzR 24 (with 14 PzIV and 10 PzIV respectively), 1./PzJgAbt 40 (with 10 JgPzIV), 4./PzArtR 89, one platoon of 3./Heeres-Flak-Art-Abt 283 (5 x 2-cm Flak) and some supply troops.
24.PzD was arriving in East Prussia piecemeal and when on 23 January the Soviet forces reached the Baltic coast in the vicinity of Elbing, thus cutting the Heeresgruppe "Mitte" from the rest of the Wehrmacht, some of the elements of the division were still underway. Thus PzJgAbt 40 (without 1. Kompanie), the main portion of PzNachrichten-Abt 86 and 60% of Feldgendarmerie-Trupp 40 were separated from their parent division and shortly afterwards were assigned to 4.PzD. They remained with the latter till the end of the war.
Hope this helps
Re:
24. Pz division figures of Pz IV was authorized 132 ? too many. normally only 80-103.Roger Griffiths wrote:Hi Don,
24PD was never strong in 1944/45. The Return of 1Jan45 listing would run to 7 or 8 pages of A4. So, some extracts.
Personnel 13,492/10,992 (Establ./Actual)
Stug III -/1/3 (Establ./Runners/Short Term Repair)
Panzer IV 132/31/21
Panther 79/-/-
SPW/Armd. Cars/etc. 257/58/24
sIG(Sfl) 12/3/3
Kettenkrad+M/c's 464/186/77
Cars 589/373/102
Maultiere 114/98/27
Trucks 1,587/629/137
Tonnage Carrying Capacity 3,700/579/413
Tracked Tractors 126/52/35
RSO -/5/3
Pak 40 13/27/3
Artillery Guns 43/34/3
MG's 1,239/535/-
Roger
-
Roger Griffiths
- Associate
- Posts: 925
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:24 am
- Location: UK
Re: KG-Einem/24th Pz Div early Jan'45
Well, that's what the reports say at this period. You can go to Freiburg or IWM, London and check.
I'm trying to work out the makeup, will come back if I succeed. I know what they used to get up to.
Roger
I'm trying to work out the makeup, will come back if I succeed. I know what they used to get up to.
Roger
Re: KG-Einem/24th Pz Div early Jan'45
Suppose it is what the report said, sometimes I think their autorized figures had some problem. Normally 1944-45 German panzer division had two battalion one is Panther with 79 Panther tanks and one is PzIV battalion with maximum 103 tanks. ( it was based upon Geman division authorized data in Normandy).
Only 21. Panzer division had two Pz IV battalion : exactly is one Pz IV battalion and another is Pz IV and Somua mixed battalion , If she had over 130 Pz IV , I think it is reasonable. But 24. Pz division was normal pz division with one Panther and one Pz IV battalion.
Only 21. Panzer division had two Pz IV battalion : exactly is one Pz IV battalion and another is Pz IV and Somua mixed battalion , If she had over 130 Pz IV , I think it is reasonable. But 24. Pz division was normal pz division with one Panther and one Pz IV battalion.
-
Roger Griffiths
- Associate
- Posts: 925
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:24 am
- Location: UK
Re: KG-Einem/24th Pz Div early Jan'45
I don't think I can explain the 132 with any certitude. Until November '44 the establishments were 44 Stug III for 2 Coys. of III/PR24, 54 Panzer IV, 44 for 2 Coys., 5 for Recce Plat. Staff Coy. III/PR24 and 5 for Regt. Recce Plat. PR24. In November changed to 132 Panzer IV. Stug III's no longer figured. Alkett Panzer IV/70 were issued so that is part reason for change in establishment. Also, PzJgAbt. 40 figures now. (Then, there were Sturmpanzer IV in PzAR, maybe they figure). So, let's try:-
4 Coys. of 22 = 88 (Higher establishment because only one Abt. ?)
2 Recce plats. = 10 (III/PR24 and PR24)
PzJgAbt = 31 (Higher establishment, don't believe it though)
Leader Grp. III/PR24 = 3 Befehl Pz IV (Don't believe it, they were'nt supposed to report command vehicles this way but some divisions did).
Total 132
I'm only posting this suggested breakdown, so some informed member can read it and can imoprove or correct it.
Forget I(V)/PR24, never seved with parent PD.
Roger
4 Coys. of 22 = 88 (Higher establishment because only one Abt. ?)
2 Recce plats. = 10 (III/PR24 and PR24)
PzJgAbt = 31 (Higher establishment, don't believe it though)
Leader Grp. III/PR24 = 3 Befehl Pz IV (Don't believe it, they were'nt supposed to report command vehicles this way but some divisions did).
Total 132
I'm only posting this suggested breakdown, so some informed member can read it and can imoprove or correct it.
Forget I(V)/PR24, never seved with parent PD.
Roger
Re: KG-Einem/24th Pz Div early Jan'45
Just a few random bits and pieces:
17 Pz.Jg.IV intended for 24 Pz.Div were confiscated in Strasburg on 20 Jan by 5 Coy, Pz.R.25, 7 Pz.Div, and deployed for an attack towards Deutsch-Eylau. The vehicles were so new, the guns hadn't been fired in and the crews had to find white paint to apply some improvised winter camouflage. The vehicles failed to make much headway, and withdrew to a country estate. There, while waiting for fuel, they were surprised by Soviet armour and destroyed.
While Hossbach's army prepared for its attempt to break out towards Elbing, 24 Pz.Div allocated about 40Pz.IV and half-tracks to Gruppe Einem, which saw its first action at Willenburg on 22 Jan, followed by combat around Ortelsburg. Meanwhile, the remnants of 18 Pz.Gren.Div - little more than a signals company and a weak Pz.Gren.Rgt - were assigned to 24 Pz.Div, together with Gr.Reg.9 from 23 Inf.Div. This regiment was known as 'Graf-9' before the war, on account of its aristocratic personnel, and it rapidly established excellent relations with the East Prussian officers of 24 Pz.Div.
As the Heiligenbeil pocket disintegrated, 24 Pz.Div's last units found themselves in Grossman's enclave around Leysuhnen, from where they were ordered to attampt to break out and reach Balga. Most of them were scattered and destroyed in the attempt on the night of 24-25 March. Sheltering in a foxhole, General von Nostitz-Wallwitz, commander of 24 Pz.Div, presented the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves to Oberstleutnant Trittel, commander of the last survivors of 23 Inf.Div. Within hours, both were severely wounded by shellfire. Although 24 Pz.Div. managed to get their wounded commander out to Schleswig-Holstein, he later developed an intra-abdominal abscess, dying after the end of the war.
All of this, and more, is in my forthcoming book, 'Battlefield Prussia', which will be published next September.
Prit
17 Pz.Jg.IV intended for 24 Pz.Div were confiscated in Strasburg on 20 Jan by 5 Coy, Pz.R.25, 7 Pz.Div, and deployed for an attack towards Deutsch-Eylau. The vehicles were so new, the guns hadn't been fired in and the crews had to find white paint to apply some improvised winter camouflage. The vehicles failed to make much headway, and withdrew to a country estate. There, while waiting for fuel, they were surprised by Soviet armour and destroyed.
While Hossbach's army prepared for its attempt to break out towards Elbing, 24 Pz.Div allocated about 40Pz.IV and half-tracks to Gruppe Einem, which saw its first action at Willenburg on 22 Jan, followed by combat around Ortelsburg. Meanwhile, the remnants of 18 Pz.Gren.Div - little more than a signals company and a weak Pz.Gren.Rgt - were assigned to 24 Pz.Div, together with Gr.Reg.9 from 23 Inf.Div. This regiment was known as 'Graf-9' before the war, on account of its aristocratic personnel, and it rapidly established excellent relations with the East Prussian officers of 24 Pz.Div.
As the Heiligenbeil pocket disintegrated, 24 Pz.Div's last units found themselves in Grossman's enclave around Leysuhnen, from where they were ordered to attampt to break out and reach Balga. Most of them were scattered and destroyed in the attempt on the night of 24-25 March. Sheltering in a foxhole, General von Nostitz-Wallwitz, commander of 24 Pz.Div, presented the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves to Oberstleutnant Trittel, commander of the last survivors of 23 Inf.Div. Within hours, both were severely wounded by shellfire. Although 24 Pz.Div. managed to get their wounded commander out to Schleswig-Holstein, he later developed an intra-abdominal abscess, dying after the end of the war.
All of this, and more, is in my forthcoming book, 'Battlefield Prussia', which will be published next September.
Prit
-
Roger Griffiths
- Associate
- Posts: 925
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:24 am
- Location: UK
Re: KG-Einem/24th Pz Div early Jan'45
Good luck with the book, Prit.Prit wrote:Just a few random bits and pieces:
17 Pz.Jg.IV intended for 24 Pz.Div were confiscated in Strasburg on 20 Jan by 5 Coy, Pz.R.25, 7 Pz.Div, and deployed for an attack towards Deutsch-Eylau. The vehicles were so new, the guns hadn't been fired in and the crews had to find white paint to apply some improvised winter camouflage. The vehicles failed to make much headway, and withdrew to a country estate. There, while waiting for fuel, they were surprised by Soviet armour and destroyed.
While Hossbach's army prepared for its attempt to break out towards Elbing, 24 Pz.Div allocated about 40Pz.IV and half-tracks to Gruppe Einem, which saw its first action at Willenburg on 22 Jan, followed by combat around Ortelsburg. Meanwhile, the remnants of 18 Pz.Gren.Div - little more than a signals company and a weak Pz.Gren.Rgt - were assigned to 24 Pz.Div, together with Gr.Reg.9 from 23 Inf.Div. This regiment was known as 'Graf-9' before the war, on account of its aristocratic personnel, and it rapidly established excellent relations with the East Prussian officers of 24 Pz.Div.
As the Heiligenbeil pocket disintegrated, 24 Pz.Div's last units found themselves in Grossman's enclave around Leysuhnen, from where they were ordered to attampt to break out and reach Balga. Most of them were scattered and destroyed in the attempt on the night of 24-25 March. Sheltering in a foxhole, General von Nostitz-Wallwitz, commander of 24 Pz.Div, presented the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves to Oberstleutnant Trittel, commander of the last survivors of 23 Inf.Div. Within hours, both were severely wounded by shellfire. Although 24 Pz.Div. managed to get their wounded commander out to Schleswig-Holstein, he later developed an intra-abdominal abscess, dying after the end of the war.
All of this, and more, is in my forthcoming book, 'Battlefield Prussia', which will be published next September.
Prit
Roger
Re: KG-Einem/24th Pz Div early Jan'45
Hi, Roger ,apart from 21. Pz division, I just find one Pz division had over 100 Pz IV, it was Panzer Lehr division. She had 116 combat ready Pz IV plus 4 in repair on April 1 1944. But Its Pz IV were distributed in Pz regiment and Pz jager abteilung 130. And later all Pz IV were transfered to 21. Pz division.
-
Martin Block
- Enthusiast
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 11:09 am
Re: KG-Einem/24th Pz Div early Jan'45
Prit,
Sorry, but I am unable to verify an allocation of 17 Jagdpz. IV - i.e. Pz. IV/70(V) or 70(A) since the Jagdpz. IV L/48 was already long out of production - to 24. Pz.Div. during January 1945.
When the division was ordered to move to East Prussia it had to leave the tanks of its III./Pz.Rgt. 24 behind to other units under H.Gr. Sued.
In contrast to that the new Pz.Jg.Abt. 40 - which had only joined the division during Dec 1944 - was ordered to take its about 17 remaining Pz. IV/70(V) to East Prussia.
However, Pz.Jg.Abt. 40 was unable to fully join up again with the division. Only the 1. Kp. with at least 7 Pz. IV/70(V) made it before the division was cut of, while the Stab, Stabskp., 2.(Pz. IV/70(V)) and 3.(7,5 cm Pak 40) Kp. ended up for good with the 4. Pz.Div.
On 5.1.1945 the III./Pz.Rgt. 24 had been ordered to be reduced to only 3 instead of the original 4 Schwadronen. Therefore the Stabsschwadron was to receive 3, each of the 3 Schwadronen 14 Pz. IV, i.e. a total of 45 new tanks. Actual deliveries were:
14 Pz. IV/70(A) shipped from a H.Za. on 13.1.1945, reported received on 15.1.1945 (picked up by 11./24)
31 Pz. IV Ausf. J shipped from a H.Za. on 15.1.1945, reported received on 17.1.1945 (11 picked up by 9./24, the other 20 allocated to 5. Pz.Div. on short notice)
Apart from these 45 no other tanks or tank destroyers were allocated or shipped to 24. Pz.Div. during January 1945!
Please take a look at my allocation lists for Pz. IV/70 over here http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic ... 545#160545 and here http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic ... 883#160883 .
You may notice that during mid Jan 1945 there was no 17 strong trainload with these Jagdpanzers on the way at all to any unit on the Eastern Front. From my available documents I can verify that basically all larger shipments listed there did reach their destined units - except one. That particular unit was the Pz.Jg.Abt. 10 for the 10. Pz.Gren.Div. which at that time was under formation in Mielau.
10 Pz. IV/70(V) had been shipped to that unit on 16.1.1945 but it doesn't look as if they ever made it to Mielau. It is known that the men of Pz.Jg.Abt. 10 were briefly engaged in combat in the area as infantry before being transfered to Neuhammer where they arrived sometime between 21.1. and 28.1.1945 w/o any AFVs. So at the time being my theory is that those Jagdpanzers picked up by the 5./Pz.Rgt. 25 probably were intended for Pz.Jg.Abt. 10 but definitely not for III./Pz.Rgt. 24.
I do not know where you found that story but I know it from 'So war es wirklich' by Johann Huber (veteran of Pz.Rgt. 25) published in 1989. But he does not speak of 17 Jagdpanzers! Translation from German text p. 163: "At Strasburg station the 5. Kompanie - which was down to to only 4 Pz. IV by then - picked up about 13 brandnew AVFs .... These were not tanks but leichte Panzerjäger 39/IV with Pantherkanone ..."
So it's not 17 but just 'about 13' which comes closer to my theory. Huber himself did not participate in this particular action but the story was related to him by a former comrade 'many years after the war as memories already threatened to fade' as he puts it. So 'about 13' may equally have been just 10 ...
Just my 2 cents which I hope you might find useful
Martin Block
Sorry, but I am unable to verify an allocation of 17 Jagdpz. IV - i.e. Pz. IV/70(V) or 70(A) since the Jagdpz. IV L/48 was already long out of production - to 24. Pz.Div. during January 1945.
When the division was ordered to move to East Prussia it had to leave the tanks of its III./Pz.Rgt. 24 behind to other units under H.Gr. Sued.
In contrast to that the new Pz.Jg.Abt. 40 - which had only joined the division during Dec 1944 - was ordered to take its about 17 remaining Pz. IV/70(V) to East Prussia.
However, Pz.Jg.Abt. 40 was unable to fully join up again with the division. Only the 1. Kp. with at least 7 Pz. IV/70(V) made it before the division was cut of, while the Stab, Stabskp., 2.(Pz. IV/70(V)) and 3.(7,5 cm Pak 40) Kp. ended up for good with the 4. Pz.Div.
On 5.1.1945 the III./Pz.Rgt. 24 had been ordered to be reduced to only 3 instead of the original 4 Schwadronen. Therefore the Stabsschwadron was to receive 3, each of the 3 Schwadronen 14 Pz. IV, i.e. a total of 45 new tanks. Actual deliveries were:
14 Pz. IV/70(A) shipped from a H.Za. on 13.1.1945, reported received on 15.1.1945 (picked up by 11./24)
31 Pz. IV Ausf. J shipped from a H.Za. on 15.1.1945, reported received on 17.1.1945 (11 picked up by 9./24, the other 20 allocated to 5. Pz.Div. on short notice)
Apart from these 45 no other tanks or tank destroyers were allocated or shipped to 24. Pz.Div. during January 1945!
Please take a look at my allocation lists for Pz. IV/70 over here http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic ... 545#160545 and here http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic ... 883#160883 .
You may notice that during mid Jan 1945 there was no 17 strong trainload with these Jagdpanzers on the way at all to any unit on the Eastern Front. From my available documents I can verify that basically all larger shipments listed there did reach their destined units - except one. That particular unit was the Pz.Jg.Abt. 10 for the 10. Pz.Gren.Div. which at that time was under formation in Mielau.
10 Pz. IV/70(V) had been shipped to that unit on 16.1.1945 but it doesn't look as if they ever made it to Mielau. It is known that the men of Pz.Jg.Abt. 10 were briefly engaged in combat in the area as infantry before being transfered to Neuhammer where they arrived sometime between 21.1. and 28.1.1945 w/o any AFVs. So at the time being my theory is that those Jagdpanzers picked up by the 5./Pz.Rgt. 25 probably were intended for Pz.Jg.Abt. 10 but definitely not for III./Pz.Rgt. 24.
I do not know where you found that story but I know it from 'So war es wirklich' by Johann Huber (veteran of Pz.Rgt. 25) published in 1989. But he does not speak of 17 Jagdpanzers! Translation from German text p. 163: "At Strasburg station the 5. Kompanie - which was down to to only 4 Pz. IV by then - picked up about 13 brandnew AVFs .... These were not tanks but leichte Panzerjäger 39/IV with Pantherkanone ..."
So it's not 17 but just 'about 13' which comes closer to my theory. Huber himself did not participate in this particular action but the story was related to him by a former comrade 'many years after the war as memories already threatened to fade' as he puts it. So 'about 13' may equally have been just 10 ...
Just my 2 cents which I hope you might find useful
Martin Block
Re: KG-Einem/24th Pz Div early Jan'45
Thanks, Martin.
My source for this is 'Y Rothenburg', which Huber co-authored with Willi Hegen and Bert von Eggloffstein, two other former members of 7 Pz.Div. I suspect the exact number of vehicles will never be known, and in any event, they were all lost within a very short time, together with some ov 7 Pz.Div's last Pz.IVs. The same source gives me an account for the loss of several of 7 Pz.Div's last Panthers, in a very similar incident, ambushed while awaiting refuelling. Was this a coincidence or are my sources 'remembering' the same incident, but incorrectly attributing it to two different actions? I guess this is part of the problem of survivors reconstructing events many years later, when all those who were involved are long dead.
Prit
My source for this is 'Y Rothenburg', which Huber co-authored with Willi Hegen and Bert von Eggloffstein, two other former members of 7 Pz.Div. I suspect the exact number of vehicles will never be known, and in any event, they were all lost within a very short time, together with some ov 7 Pz.Div's last Pz.IVs. The same source gives me an account for the loss of several of 7 Pz.Div's last Panthers, in a very similar incident, ambushed while awaiting refuelling. Was this a coincidence or are my sources 'remembering' the same incident, but incorrectly attributing it to two different actions? I guess this is part of the problem of survivors reconstructing events many years later, when all those who were involved are long dead.
Prit