Armament of Eisenbahn-Batterien of OB.West

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Rich
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Armament of Eisenbahn-Batterien of OB.West

Post by Rich »

Okay, can anyone fill in the holes? :D

Eisenbahn-Artillerie of Ob.West:

Stab E-Art.Abt. 640 – Marseilles
Stab E-Art.Abt. 676 – Blankenberghe
Stab E-Art.Abt. 702
Stab E-Art.Abt. 725
Stab E-Art.Abt. 780 – Hendaye

E-Bttr.6/100 – Abbeville
E-Bttr.655 – Etaples
E-Bttr.664 – Hendaye (two Th.Br.)
E-Bttr.674 – Hendaye (three 24cm K (E) Theodore)
E-Bttr.688 – (?)
E-Bttr.692 – Marseilles
E-Bttr.690 – Bredene (four 28cm K (E) Kurze Bruno)
E-Bttr.696 – Dunkirk
E-Bttr.698 – Marseilles
E-Bttr.701 – (?)
E-Bttr.710 – (?)
E-Bttr.712 – Wimereux (Pointe aux Oies) (two 28cm K5 (E))
E-Bttr.713 – Wimille (Hydrequent) (two 28cm K5 (E)) (not in the Ob.West list)
E-Bttr.717 – Blankenberghe
E-Bttr.718 – Hayst
E-Bttr.721 – Le Verdon (two kz.Br.)
E-Battr.722 – Vire (four 24cm)
E-Battr.1./725 – Vire
E-Bttr.749 – Pertuis
E-Bttr.765 – Calais-Coquelles (two 28cm K5 (E))

2.(E)/ HKAR 1262 – Auderville-Laye (two 20.3cm SK C/34 (E))
Plouharnel Bttr./ MAA 264 – Lorient (three 24cm K (E) 675 (f))

Ob.West also reported that as of 1 March they had 3 foreign guns manned by Kriegsmarine personel, 39 German guns manned by Heer personnel and 8 German guns manned by KM personnel. I know that E-Bttr.690 was subordinated to MAA 203 and that Plouharnel Bttr. was subordinated to MAA 264, so that accounts for four of the German and all three of the foreign KM-manned guns. But what about the rest? :D
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Leo Niehorster
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Post by Leo Niehorster »

What dates are you looking for?
What information are you looking for?
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Post by Rich »

Leo Niehorster wrote:What dates are you looking for?
What information are you looking for?
Hi Leo,

It's all part of my digging into the Normandy Campaign. I am interested in locations and equipment on or about June 1944 and especially if I may be missing some units. I know the status for many of these units as of September from an Ob.West report, I would just like to fill in the information for the earlier period. I am also curious about some of the units such as 2.(E)/ HKAR 1262 – Auderville-Laye (two 20.3cm SK C/34 (E)) and Plouharnel Bttr./ MAA 264 – Lorient (three 24cm K (E) 675 (f)) - were they also assigned Eisenbahn-Artillerie designations?

TIA.

And the next one to do is to complete the coastal artillery batteries. :D
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RR guns in France

Post by Jason Long »

Rich,
Secretly I've been preparing a page on all the RR arty that I can track, <enduringly fascinated as I am with big things that go boom!>, but you've got stuff that I don't (is it possible to get get scans or copies?). But I'll add whatever I've got that's sort of relevant. Hmm, I hadn't thought to pull out my copy of Rudi Rolf, Der Atlantikwall: Die Bauten der deutschen Küstenbefestignungen 1940-45.

E.-Abt 725 Rolf shows it at Coquelles with 2x 28cm K5 and 2x 28cm K(E) Br as well as 8x 15.5cm sFH 414 (f)

E.-Bttr 655 had 2x 15cm KL/40 in 1940, but Rolf shows 4 guns, but he lists this unit at Zeebrugge and Les Trembles
E.-Bttr 688 had one K5(E) in Dec 44
E.-Bttr 692 Nafziger shows this with 27.4cm K(E) 592 (f)
E.-Bttr 696 Gander & Chamberlain show this with 3x 40cm H(E) 752 (f), but Rolf shows 2x 28cm K(E), but no location noted
E.-Bttr 701 Rolf shows it at Boulogne with 2x 21cm K12
E.-Bttr 710 Rolf shows it at Calais with 2x K5(E)
E.-Bttr 712 Rolf shows it at Rinxent with 2x K5 and 4x 15.5cm sFH 414 (f)
E.-Bttr 713 Rolf shows this at Aubengues with 2x K5
E.-Bttr 717 and 718 each had 3x 17cm SKL/40 in 1940
E.-Bttr 722 Rolf places in Cherbourg
E.-Bttr 1./725 is mentioned in the Geheimen Tagesberichte as arriving in France on 2 June, equipment and numbers unmentioned, but Rolf shows it with 2x 28cm and 4x 15cm RR guns
E.-Bttr 749 had 1x 28cm K5(E) Glatt in Dec 44
E.-Bttr 765 Rolf gives it the same composition as 712 at Colinctun

Furthermore he lists E.-Bttr 687 at Lissweghe with 2x 20.3cm K(E) and 2x 10cm leFH 14/19 (t) and E.-Bttr 532 at Paimpol with 4x 20.3cm K(E)
Marine-Art.-Bttr Gneisenau with 4x 15cm SK is listed by Rolf under 19th Army

The only RR guns not assigned to E.-Bttr that Rolf lists are:
6x 19.4 K(E) 486 (f) on the Ile de Cézembre under 1./608
2x 24cm KM 93/96 under 5./280 at Prefailles
4x 16.4cm KM 93/96 at Kerbonn under 4./262
4x 34cm under 4./682 at Cépet

Rolf shows 2./HKAR 1262 with 4x 10.5cm K 331 (f) at Biville and gives the 20.3cm guns to 3./HKAR 1262 in Auderville. A typo on somebody's part, presumably.

Jason
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Re: RR guns in France

Post by Leo Niehorster »

Jason Long wrote: Secretly I've been preparing a page on all the RR arty that I can track,
I just knew it. You just couldn't resist. :wink:
Don't you wish someone would do for the Eisenbahn artillery what Sawodny has done for the Panzerzüge!

Rich:
Afraid I cannot help - haven't really gotten into 1944 yet.

Cheers
Leo
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RR arty

Post by Jason Long »

Leo,
Damn straight! I'm actually fairly suprised that no one has done so since I'd regard RR guns as far more "sexy" than armored trains, what with Dora and all that. But I guess they're far harder to track in the archives and there don't seem to be as many new pictures surfacing on them.

I was quite suprised when Bill Russ sent me the Sevastopol OB how few RR guns were present for that battle, or at least the early stages as I'd have figured that it was exactly the thing that RR guns were suited for. Similiarly the RR guns listed on the opening day of Barbarossa just seem to disappear as I can find little to no mention of them in any of the multitude of Krigesgliederungen that Bill has scanned for me of the Eastern Front. Very puzzling.

Jason
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Post by Leo Niehorster »

Jason,
The initial hiding act of the RR artillery in Barbarossa is not too surprising. The rail guage was different. Would take a while to re-nail everything, and then supplies probably had priority for the advancing troops. However, you are right, as soon as a nice big, fat, static target was found, one could assume a whole armada (?) of RR guns would be swarming all over it.

I agree completely. I am one of those who think RR guns are really cool. Unfortunately, I only have a few books on them, and that's mainly photographs. Of course, like all Heerestruppe, independent battery war diaries were destroyed in 1945. The Dora gun was a big propaganda exercise, so received due exposure. (And was also a wee bit difficult to hide). Taube's book covers that very well. His second book, although titled "Deutsche Eisenbahn-Geschütze", dedicates well over 1/3 to Dora.

:oops:
Sorry Rich, didn't want to derail this thread.


Cheers
Leo
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Jason Long
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Tracking RR guns

Post by Jason Long »

While I mourn the fire at Potsdam, I'm still vastly puzzled by the absence of RR guns from most all of the Army-level OBs that I've got. Perhaps they were assigned directly to the Army Groups, but I can't find much mention of them on the AGS OBs that I've gotten from Bill.
A puzzlement because those guns deployed in the West account for less than half of all the batteries that I've identified. Where were the others, and what were they doing? Laid-up? Certainly not impossible, but not likely in large numbers.

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Post by Leo Niehorster »

Excerpts regarding the use of RR artillery:

The 702nd RR Artillery Battalion, with 710th and 713th Batteries, was assigned to Army Group Center in the area of Siedlce for Barbarossa. To prepare the positions for these three K5 guns, one railroad engineer battalion needed two to three weeks.

Furthermore, the bedding of some streches, while adequate for supply operations, was not strong enough to support heavy railroad artillery operations. (Note, we are still in Poland at this point in time).

I begin to understand why they were not used more often!

Further remarks:
Page 38
Gerhard Taube
"Deutsche-Eisenbahn-Geschütze"
Motorbuch, Stuttgart, 1990
ISBN 3-613-01352-5

CHeers
Leo
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Post by Stauffenberg »

May I join?

I have also wondered about the missing RR artillery batteries during Barbarossa. Leo´s explanation really seems to fit.

But: The official allocation of the troops for Barbarossa shows only 9 Railroad Artillery Batteries:

AG North, 18th Army (2): 690, 696
AG Center, 4th Army (5): 710, 712, 713, 765
AG South, 17th Army (2): Stab/725, 2./725

You see I can´t find the 5th Battery of AG Center and the 2nd Battery of AG South. I have never managed to fill in the gaps. Was anybody more successful?
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Missing RR batteries

Post by Jason Long »

Stauffenburg,

E-Bttr. 701 is assigned to AGS with 1x 21cm K 12. Curiously, trawling my secret RR gun listing doesn't show anything for AGC except 2./833 which was equipped with the Karl-Gerät. I think that this was included with the RR guns in the summary tables of the Kriegsgliederung.

I think that Leo has a very good point that is particularly relevant for Barbarossa, but it does little to explain why more RR guns weren't committed against Leningrad and Sevastopol where the Eisenbahntruppen had ample time to upgrade the tracks, etc.

Jason
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Re: RR guns in France

Post by Rich »

Jason Long wrote:Rich,
Secretly I've been preparing a page on all the RR arty that I can track, <enduringly fascinated as I am with big things that go boom!>, but you've got stuff that I don't (is it possible to get get scans or copies?). But I'll add whatever I've got that's sort of relevant.
Thanks Jason, let me digest what you've sent and I'll see what I can come up with. My main source for the battery listing is a document prepared for the Inspector General of Artillery on the state of artillery in Ob.West as of 1 September 1944, various extracts from the Tagesmeldung of 7.-Armee for February-June giving unit movements and locations, Karl-Heinz Schmeelke's series of paperbacks on the Atlantic Wall batteries, a series of charts for contingency reinforcement plans for Ob.West, mid-May 1944, and just about anything else I've run across. :D

Your stuff has been a big help. Part of the confusion apparently may be in some of the batteries that were more or less permanently emplaced on the Atlantic. I will try to revisit this Monady with an update.

Rich
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Post by Leo Niehorster »

The 725. Eisenbahn-Artillerie-Abteilung, IV Corps, AG South had two batteries (1./725 with 28cm neue Bruno, 2./725 with 28cm K5.)

I am not certain of the status of these units, whether independent battalion headquartes with two independent batteries, or whether the 725th Railroad Artillery Battalion was a cohesive battalion.

In any event, there is your missing battery.

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Post by Stauffenberg »

Thank you very much for your help Gents!

And sorry for being a little bit off topic, at least it was about Rail Road Artillery. :D

Regards!
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RR Arty in France, 42 and 43

Post by Jason Long »

One of the main reasons that I picked up Rolf, despite the expense, was that he provides lists of the coast defenses before 1944. For example he gives OBs for 42 and 43 so that you can get a rough idea of the growth in CD guns over time. Damn handy stuff when trying to evaluate the viability of early landings in France, or even Norway.

Anyways, I'll post the Eisenbahn-Artillery sections here shortly.

Jason
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