I am proud to be a American

[2nd SS Panzer Das Reich]

After 9/11 I knew more than ever who I was... An American. I saw the Arabs they were so happy about the attack. It angers me to see them burning American flags. However I am overjoyed to watch the cities of all people who hate America and its people be overrun by our proud and noble military.

I realized how much these countries hate America, I find it importent that I hate them as well. I am proud of everything America has done since 2001. I will stand by America wrong or right. I now think of those countries that hate America... As nothing more than my personal enemy.

[mikerock]

I will do what my leaders tell me to do whether or not they are right or wrong because I have chosen not to think about anything other than the beer in my fridge and the porn on my computer!

I have provided a translation of the previous member's post for the convenience of others who can not speak moron.

[Herr Doktor]

Ah, my friend - if only it were that simple.

I realized how much these countries hate America, I find it importent that I hate them as well. I am proud of everything America has done since 2001.

Even Abu Ghraib? Or Gitmo? And what "proud and noble" military carried those abuses out?

And now you choose to "hate them as well." But an eye for a eye leaves everybody blind...

Things are not as simple as they appear in your media or flashed across your TV screen. Not every single individual in those "overrun" cities is an enemy or deserving of the death and destruction that visited them, just as the victims of 9/11 were not responsible for what happened to them...

They have become symbols, you see. No longer human beings, but symbols to take out frustration and hatred on - both for the terrorists and the Americans. And it seems you buy into this.

So from the depths of your new found hatred, tell me how you are really any different... from the "enemy." How are you really more noble and different from them?

HD

[2nd SS Panzer Das Reich]

I have provided a translation of the previous member's post for the convenience of others who can not speak moron.

You speak moron very well because your post is trash. America is the greatest thing the world has ever known. It is not the country of Canada that was attacked on 9/11 it was America.

It is clear that it is us (Americans) or them (middle eastern terrorist's) And those terrorist's are going down! I understand what America needs it needs to be tough on all enemies. The UN protest's America's actions, but I got a question: "What is the gonna do???" the answer is NOTHING!!! If you people who fallow the UNs word as law think we are truely evil then just try and stop us.

The main reason we lost Vietnam was not because of the soldiers (the NVA and VC never beat American troops in a major battle of any kind) But we lost the war because the druged hippies had were not loyal to this great nation.

[Herr Doktor]

The main reason we lost Vietnam was not because of the soldiers (the NVA and VC never beat American troops in a major battle of any kind) But we lost the war because the druged hippies had were not loyal to this great nation.

My, those drugged hippies must have been a sophisticated bunch, to single-handedly bring down the policy of the entire U.S. Government! And cost the U.S. the war... crafty devils! But didn't the French lose in Vietnam, too? Ok, hippies. You know who you are. Where were you during Dien Bien Phu??

SS Panzer, were you even alive during the 1960's??

HD

[2nd SS Panzer Das Reich]

Ah, my friend - if only it were that simple.

I realized how much these countries hate America, I find it importent that I hate them as well. I am proud of everything America has done since 2001.

Even Abu Ghraib? Or Gitmo? And what "proud and noble" military carried those abuses out?

And now you choose to "hate them as well." But an eye for a eye leaves everybody blind...

Things are not as simple as they appear in your media or flashed across your TV screen. Not every single individual in those "overrun" cities is an enemy or deserving of the death and destruction that visited them, just as the victims of 9/11 were not responsible for what happened to them...

They have become symbols, you see. No longer human beings, but symbols to take out frustration and hatred on - both for the terrorists and the Americans. And it seems you buy into this.

So from the depths of your new found hatred, tell me how you are really any different... from the "enemy." How are you really more noble and different from them?

HD

The prison abuse was the actions of a few American soldiers not America. besides that treatment is "kind and gentle" compared to what they do to are POWs they cut off their heads and shot them after beating them almost to death. but let's not forget the ex Navy SEALs who were beaten to death burned and their bodies hung on display.

The American leaders did not at first know of the abuse. When they did they stoped it. I believe it is a "us or them" issue one world must die the other must live.

I am 15 and hope to join the USMC and then go on to get in Marine Force Recon or I could join the Navy and become a Navy SEAL. I want to fight for my country it is my duty. The arabs are fighting America and one world must die the other must live

[2nd SS Panzer Das Reich]

The main reason we lost Vietnam was not because of the soldiers (the NVA and VC never beat American troops in a major battle of any kind) But we lost the war because the druged hippies had were not loyal to this great nation.

My, those drugged hippies must have been a sophisticated bunch, to single-handedly bring down the policy of the entire U.S. Government! And cost the U.S. the war... crafty devils! But didn't the French lose in Vietnam, too? Ok, hippies. You know who you are. Where were you during Dien Bien Phu??

SS Panzer, were you even alive during the 1960's??

HD

The will of the pubic is a powerful thing!

[Herr Doktor]

The will of the pubic is a powerful thing!

Yes, but the entire public was not made up of "drugged hippies" that decide whether to support the war or not. And the public support evaporated over time. The U.S. withdrew and left the war to the Vietnamese, who were not capable of fighting the North on their own (in fact, the ARVN's were incapable of fighting while the U.S. was still there!). It was a costly mistake for the U.S. to have ever gotten themselves into that mess. Much the same as Iraq is now.

The prison abuse was the actions of a few American soldiers not America.

A few American soldiers... acting under orders of higher ranking officers who will likely never be disciplined. And who gave those officers their orders? Torture continues to this day at Gitmo. FBI documents have been recently uncovered which detail their unease with detainee mistreatment and torture at the hands of the U.S. military and CIA there. It is more than "a few American soldiers." Meanwhile, these actions make the Americans no better than the terrorists they fight against.

The American leaders did not at first know of the abuse. When they did they stoped it. I believe it is a "us or them" issue one world must die the other must live.

Stopped it? Not so. Not aware of it? Bush administration policy has allowed this sort of torture "questioning." By sanctioning this behavior, how could they be "unaware" of it?

but let's not forget the ex Navy SEALs who were beaten to death burned and their bodies hung on display.

When the U.S. engages in similar conduct (such as at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere, where detainees have been humiliated, beaten and sometimes murdered) it makes them no different from those who did these terrible things to the SEALS. And it only continues to feed the cycle of war and violence. Such a waste...

one world must die the other must live

This is the same thing the terrorists say. How are you any different from them? Their fight, their hatred... need not be yours.

HD

[2nd SS Panzer Das Reich]

This is the same thing the terrorists say. How are you any different from them? Their fight, their hatred... need not be yours.

HD

The way I put this is They shot a gun at me, so I am shooting back with the same gun.

[2nd SS Panzer Das Reich]

Yes, but the entire public was not made up of "drugged hippies" that decide whether to support the war or not. And the public support evaporated over time. The U.S. withdrew and left the war to the Vietnamese, who were not capable of fighting the North on their own (in fact, the ARVN's were incapable of fighting while the U.S. was still there!). It was a costly mistake for the U.S. to have ever gotten themselves into that mess. Much the same as Iraq is now.

[HD

Are you American?

[Tom Houlihan]

It is clear that it is us (Americans) or them (middle eastern terrorist's) And those terrorist's are going down! I understand what America needs it needs to be tough on all enemies.

Those of us who study history should know more than others that it isn't the people, it's the governments. Making a blanket statement makes one just as bad as the one's you are complaining about. Terrs need to go, but so do governments that support them. So too do the conditions that generate some of the terr mindset.

The Vietnam war was decidedly not lost because of a bunch of drugged out hippies. IMHO it was lost because the government would not allow the war to be fought.

You say that you want to become a Marine in a few years. Speaking as a retired Marine, I can only hope that you are able to open your mind, and broaden your horizons a little bit before you make that move. Such narrow mindedness will not serve you in good stead.

[sid guttridge]

Hi 2SS PD DR,

So, you are proud of what the US has done since 9/11? That is your prerogative. I also supported the Iraq War.

However, have you also considered whether the US was in any way contributory to the psychosis that provoked 9/11 through a half century of its Middle East policy? A thorough understanding of that might make you a little less proud.

Perhaps you would care to start by justifying America's recognition of an overwhelmingly immigrant Israel in 1948 without according similar recognition to the resident Palestinian Arab population?

Look at the targets of the suicide aircraft. New York is the largest Jewish city in the world. It is through the Jewish community there that Israel raises most of its private capital. The World Trade Centre was Jewish-owned. The Pentagon is the main source of Israel's military technology. Congress or the White House, where the last plane was probably headed, has been the source of Israel's external political support and financial aid.

The 9/11 attacks had to be responded to very forcefully, as has happened. But they should also lead to some extremely tough soul searching amongst US policy makers about their Middle-East policy if they want to resolve what might otherwise prove to be a war of endless attrition in which US citizens are perpetually afraid to set foot outside their own country and are still at risk at home.

Cheers,

Sid.

[derGespenst]

I seem to recall from a previous posting that our friend 2SSPDDR is very, very young. There is hope that he may yet learn and mature.

[mikerock]

Yes my post was trash, but yours - announcing that you proudly hate people you don't even know - was about as offensive a statement I can imagine. I have never seen a post on this forum so proud of being ignorant and unreasoned.

[Michael Miller / ABR]

"The will of the pubic is a powerful thing!"

Funniest thing I've seen on any forum in a long time, even if unintentionally hilarious.

Regarding 2ndSS etc., just glad to see that you're only 15- you still have years ahead of you to find out how out of whack your thinking is on this subject. Ignorance at your age is expected/perfectly natural. But I'll give you the following advice: Talk and LISTEN to veterans, of any war but particularly this current one against "the Arabs". A vast number of them are coming home with their bodies and/or minds in tatters. And read carefully the responses of many here to your initial post. If you go to war as SEAL, Recon, Special Forces, or messcook and don't investigate what you're getting yourself into, you have only yourself to blame.

~ Mike Miller
(U.S. Navy, 1989 - 1993)