Kampfgruppe Walther

tom2 · Post by **tom2** » Wed May 28, 2003 12:48 pm

Hi,
I'm researching the actions around the British bridgehead over the Escaut canal prior to and during the opening stages of Op Market Garden. A couple of days before the Guards Dvision attacked there was a German counter-attack against the bridgehead.
My question is whether any one knows the identity of the self-propelled guns that supported this attack. I believe a couple were knocked out by 15/19 Hussars Cromwell tanks. It is possible that this was a sister unit to the Jagdpanthers that the British met in Gheel, but I believe these were in fact StuG 111s.
The other possibility is that they were from SS PzJg Abt 10, which was supporting a battlegroup drawn from both 9 and 10 SS Pz Divs operating in the area. They could not have been from 9 SS Panzer Division as they apparently lost all but 2 of their Jagdpanzer IVs around Mons, although I have not seen any photographic proof of these losses.
Any ideas or suggestions for further research would be gratefully accepted.
Cheers,
Tom

Timm Haasler · Post by **Timm Haasler** » Wed May 28, 2003 2:46 pm

You can also rule out SS Pz.Jg.Abt. 10 because the battalion fought west of Aachen till 19th Sept. at least. For instance on the 17th Sept. when Opeartion Market Graden started the battalion was at Kerkrade.

Hope that helps
Timm

tom2 · Post by **tom2** » Thu May 29, 2003 1:28 pm

Timm,
Thanks very much for the reply.
But can I be a pain and ask for a source for the location you quote for Panzerjager Abteilung 10. According to Robert Kershaw's "It Never Snows in September" by Sept 13 SS-Capt Roestel had joined Kampfgruppe Walther with 15 Jagdpanzer IVs. A unit like this had 21 Jagdpanzers I believe so that would be equivalent to two out of three companies?
Any further information on the suggested operations of this unit at this time would be interesting, were they actually engaged with the Americans around Aachen or in reserve?
Thanks for your help,
Tom
P.S. Where is Kerkrade. Belgium?

Timm Haasler · Post by **Timm Haasler** » Thu May 29, 2003 1:47 pm

Tom,

I also know Kershaws book but I haven't the slightest idea where his information is from. My source is the war diary of the LXXXI. A.K. which was responsible for the front from Maastricht (Holland) to Roetgen (Germany) in mid September.

SS Pz.Jg.Abt. 10 had 21 le. Jg.Pz. IV distributed to only two companies when it reached the front west of Aachen on 11.09.44. It was first engaged near Eynatten in Belgium and later in the area of Heerlen and Kerkrade (Holland). As the unit was mentioned on serveral occasions in the war diary of the corps it is more than unlikely that the unit was with KG Walther at the same time. Furthermore you will also find the daily strength reports of the battalion in the war diary.

Best regards
Timm

tom2 · Post by **tom2** » Fri May 30, 2003 11:35 am

Thanks very much for your reply, I suppose it goes to show I will have to research these sort of details from primary sources and not rely on published books.
Interesting that units of the 10th SS Panzer Division were so far from the location of its HQ at this time, I suppose it indicates the parlous state of the German defences at this time?
Thanks again,
Tom

Timm Haasler · Post by **Timm Haasler** » Fri May 30, 2003 12:42 pm

You are welcomed Tom. BTW I would concentrate my research on s. Pz.Jg.Abt. 559. It had StuG III and Jagdpanthers in its inventory and was in the area of Valkensward and Aalst on 17./18.09.44, which is as far as I know in the area where KG Walther was engaged.

Best regards
Timm

Timo · Post by **Timo** » Fri May 30, 2003 4:30 pm

tom2 wrote:P.S. Where is Kerkrade. Belgium?

...Kerkrade is in the south of Limburg, The Netherlands, near the German border.

Ruud Wilmsen · Post by **Ruud Wilmsen** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 12:38 am

Timm Haasler wrote:Tom,

I also know Kershaws book but I haven't the slightest idea where his information is from. My source is the war diary of the LXXXI. A.K. which was responsible for the front from Maastricht (Holland) to Roetgen (Germany) in mid September.

SS Pz.Jg.Abt. 10 had 21 le. Jg.Pz. IV distributed to only two companies when it reached the front west of Aachen on 11.09.44. It was first engaged near Eynatten in Belgium and later in the area of Heerlen and Kerkrade (Holland). As the unit was mentioned on serveral occasions in the war diary of the corps it is more than unlikely that the unit was with KG Walther at the same time. Furthermore you will also find the daily strength reports of the battalion in the war diary.

Best regards
Timm

Timm

do you have more information on SS Pz.Jg.Abt. 10
When was is released from LXXXI A.K. to Kampfgruppe Walther
What was its strenght when it was released
With SS Pz.Jg.Abt. 10 came allso art from 9 and 10 SS Pz Div to Aachen
were these allso transferred to Kampfgruppe Walther

Regards
Ruud

Timm Haasler · Post by **Timm Haasler** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 4:31 am

Ruud,

SS Pz.Jg.Abt. 10 was ordered to join 176. Inf.Div. on 21. Sept. It lost two Jg.Pz. IV during its time with LXXXI. A.K., it still had 19 tanks in its inventory on this day. I can't tell you what happend with the battalion as of 21.09.44, only thing I found out so far is that the battalion joined its mother division on 15.10.44.

Regarding the other two battlegroups of 9. & 10. SS Pz.Div. I can't give you more information's because they were intented to join LXXXI. A.K. on 11.09.44 but due to the development north of the Albert-Canal on this day they never showed up in the corps sector.

Hope that helps
Timm

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 4:38 am

As far as I can trace Kampfgruppe Walter had No tanks at all of any sort at that stage (early - mid september). In fact the Geel area was defended by Kampfgruppe Chill and they had at that time a number of Jagd Panther under command of Pz.Jager Abt 559.
If you can read Dutch then try to get hold of a copy of the book 'Einddoel Maas' by Jack Didden and Maarten Swarts. Its all about the battle for the southern part of the netherlands up to the river Maas (incl the battle for the corridor up to Grave).
I spoke with Maarten two weeks ago when I and Marcel Zwarts (Armour at Arnhem) visited his place for some photographs of armoured vehicles for Marcel's new book and Maarten told us that they have the plan to write a book about Pz.Jager Abt 559.
The StuG III were I believed from Herman Görings A.u.E. regiment who had a small snumber of old tanks for training. These were send to the Geel area also but most of these were knocked out within a few day's and the remnants retreated to Best and were used against the 101 A/B div .

Simon H · Post by **Simon H** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:29 am

Hello Tom,
I'd also say that the Stugs you refer to were part of Pz.Jager Abt 559. They are mentioned in Maarten Swarts' book on the liberation of Brabant as well as Luc Van Gents book on "Den Bosch" - the battle of S'Hertogenbosch, which took place in October '44.
I believe that the OC of 559, Franz Kopka has produced a book on his unit, but I haven't seen a copy, only bits he posted me via snailmail.

Good luck!
Simon

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:16 am

.... beter forget this message as it was not correct, see my other message on this topic..........

tom2 · Post by **tom2** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:09 pm

Peter,
I just got a copy of Hitler's Military Conferences 1942-1945 (published last year by Greenhill books) from the library.
There are fragments of the evening conference of 17 Sept which include reference to 280 Assualt Brigade. Well, I think its a reference to that Bde, but its not mentioned by name. But it refers to a Bde on its way from Denmark, that had reached Koblenz and was being re-routed to Arnhem. My question is that it goes on to state that the Bde was being carried on 5 or 6 trains and included 31 assault guns, Hitler even asks "When can we expect the entire assault gun brigade to arrive?...So it can arrive all at once?"
I have always read that only 10 assault guns were involved in the fighting in Arnhem on 19 Sept, do you know where the other guns went and if they were delayed?
Cheers

Tom

Timm Haasler · Post by **Timm Haasler** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:32 pm

Sorry Peter but I can't confirm your information regarding s. H.Pz.Jg.Abt. 559. On 1st Sept 1944 it had 17 Jagdpanther and 28 StuG III in its inventory according to Kopka's book. These figures are confirmed by the reports of the Gen.d.Pz.Tr. Only difference between Kopka's book and the file is that according to RH 10/349 the battalion received 18 Jagdpanther.

Hope that helps
Timm

Ruud Wilmsen · Post by **Ruud Wilmsen** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:15 am

According to panzerkeil
Fallschirm-Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 12 was allso in the vicinity of joe's Bridge

Sep 44 rebuilding near Köln-Wahn with 5 assault guns
16 Sep 44 transferred to the Arnhem area to provide support for 7. Fallschirmjäger-Division.

According to Kerutt his batalion was reinforced to a kampfgruppe with parts of Fallschirmdiv Erdmann
(eine Schwere und eine leichte Flakbatterie sowie eine Pionierkompagnie)
According to Kerrut his unit allso accuired from depots 16 RSO
Someone any info or foto's on these

Regards Ruud

Feldgrau.net

Kampfgruppe Walther

Kampfgruppe Walther

SS Pz.Jg.Abt. 10

SS Pz.Jg.Abt. 10

Re: SS Pz.Jg.Abt. 10

Pz.Jag 559

Pz.

Pz.Jg.Abt. 559

Kampfgruppe Walther STUG III