Obersturmführer Horst von Reichardt?

German SS and Waffen-SS 1923-1945.
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Tom Houlihan
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Post by Tom Houlihan »

Just for the sake of argument, is there anywhere else anyone knows of where a fine white horse, or a Lippizaner stallion could have been walked by a Konigstiger?
I know that some people are up to speed on the Lippizaner history. Can we put them in a city with a schwere Panzer Abteilung?
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Josef Hahne
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Post by Josef Hahne »

To all on this thread,
There have been a few of you that have been very supportive and a few that have been very zelous and quick to throw stones. Still some others seem to have left no stone unturned in their quest to out do Simon Wiesenthal and his cronies to make "Horst's" life a living hell. To those of you who fit this description I hope you have enjoyed yourselves. Hoorah! Pat yourselves on the back and drink a toast to each other for you all have managed to drive another SS vet into silence. He is sick over all this "prying'.
Lets say perhaps some of what was on the website was mis-quoted. It was members of this list that dragged "Horst" into the spotlight and subjected his reputation, his pride, and his recollections to the intense scrutiny that is normally saved for wanted felons. I suppose you can say this was done in the name of RESEARCH!! Call it what you like but I believe there are a lot of people on the list that need to get out from behind their computers and live a little.
True to my word, I am cancelling my membership to this list and I am appologizing to anyone that I may have offended in previous posts. I am also sorry if this has caused a lot of research to be done. That is not what the website info was trying to accomplish.

Marko, I got a little hot in some of my posts to you, and I really appologize. I am normally more level headed than that.

Timo, I think you are a decent guy and I appologize if I have acted rude in some of my posts with you. You must admitt that I have been helpfull in providing as much info as possible to work this out. I responded to this list when I saw you had posted a private question to me and I have been very responsive in follow up posts.

Heinz Kling, First of all, it was NOT "Horst's" idea to have his likeness put on the internet. Friends of his wanted to honor him by doing so on their site. None were pay sites so no one was "cheated". Some of the sites containing his likeness have been taken down to be "reworked" so as to further protect his privacy from people like you who have nothing better to do than to troll the internet. Unlike others on this thread, your posts were inflamatory and devoid of any tact what so ever. If what you see and read on the internet "makes you puke" you have fortitude and constitution of a 4 year old girl. Is Heinz Kling a pen name? Are you actually 4 years old and a female? I think we all should search your name and put what we find on a list like this. Nah, that is a waste of time, no one would care to read about you.

Wiedersehn!
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Timo
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Post by Timo »

I understand your feelings Josef.

Hans claims to be a former Obersturmführer and is well known as such among reenactors in the USA. That's how we know about him. He wasn't dragged into the spotlights, he came out into the open himself. Perhaps not on this website, but he does not hide his identity at all. He might not agree with various websites about his live, but he is a regular guest at reenactment shows and freely speaks about his wartime experiences. It's not like we secretly investigated his live or anything.

Nobody here has the intention to damage anybody, but this is a research forum and research is what we do. You must admit that it is still very strange that, apart from possible misquotes and failing memory from Hans, the fact remains that he does not appear on the graduation lists of the Junkerschule Tölz. For somebody who claims to be a Tölz graduate at the incredible age of 17 or just 18, that's more than just odd. This has been discussed both on the forum and in email, but every way we look at it, things just don't look right.

Can Hans name say three or four class mates from the Junkerschule?
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heinz kling

Ypu must bear with me, Josef

Post by heinz kling »

I am a great fan of the SS, the Hitlerjugend especially, and that's why I stumbled onto Horst's bio by accident whilst goolging the web for info. I was completely neutral in my first post, the intent of which is to alert others that there's a living veteran who is quite open about his wartime experience, though I am quite sceptical about him taking part in Budapest, as to my knowledge no HJ members were there.

Others jumped into the fray so to speak, and doubts were raised as to the authenticity of his claims and exploits. And when numerous mistakes of omission and commmision were unearthed, you came into the picture defending him with excuses of privacy and persecution.

Up to now, Horst has not been able to substantiate what he posited about himself, and all we know is that the name is an alias, and that's it.

To clear matters, all Horst needs to do is give out names of his classmates in the Junkerschule or his waffenbrüder in the Hitlerjugend , in private to John Moore or Timo Worst, who can authenticate them. Horst can still keep his identity private and confidential whilst providing solid proof that he's indeed a veteran. Is that too much to ask for?
heinz kling

Alternatively

Post by heinz kling »

We are honored and privaledged to have Horst as an Honorary Member of our unit! He is our guidance and our inspiration. He is also the reason why we portray the Panzer Grenadiers of the Hitlerjugend Division!
Obersturmfuhrer von Reichardt was trained in the Adolf Hitler Schule in Berlin as well as the Officer Training School at Bad Tolz. After graduating from Bad Tolz as an Untersturmfuhrer in the Waffen SS, he was sent to the Panzer Training School at Sennelager where he was trained to Command P-5's (Panther's). He was then posted to 12.SS Pz Division Hitlerjugend and took part in Wacht Am Rhein (Battle of the Bulge). After the Battle of the Bulge, he regrouped at Sennerlager where he took over command of a Kompanie of King Tiger Tanks (Konigstiger). In the beginning of May 1945, he and his Kompanie surrendered to General Pattons 3rd Army in Czechslovakia.


Since Obersturmführer Horst commanded a Königstiger kompanie in 45, he can just tell us which kompanie and sSSPzAbteilung (there were only 3) he was and that would help!
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Jason Pipes
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Post by Jason Pipes »

I agree 100% with John, if you're going to use a false or assumed name, fine, but let everyone know ahead of time first.
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Siegfried
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Post by Siegfried »

Haven't been around here in a little while and I see this thread is still 'active' so I thought I throw in. I am a disinterested party so I don't have an ax to grind either way, I just want to know the truth. I might be able to help a little here.
I've met the man many times and I have no doubt that he is in fact an SS veteran, but I do doubt he was an officer.
But then, I really have no idea. I WOULD like, however, to set the record straight whichever it is. And I do have some information I have gathered since this whole thing started.
I have right in front of me now a photgraph (not a photocopy, but full sized glossy photo) of his POW 'Certificate of Discharge' and it says he was released on 28 Feb 46 from the Waffen SS...but no rank is indicated. I would guess from his early release that he wasn't an officer because weren't they 'manditory arrest' catagory?

Next thing, he does in fact name some of the men he served with. Whether true or not I cannot say, but maybe someone here can check. They are as follows;
At the Ardennes he says that his Battalion Commander was Hans Siegel (famous name I find out) but calls him a Hauptsturmführer. And his Company commander was named Zimmermann (no rank or first name).
He also names two of his comrades who survived the war with him:
Hans Mann and Willi Günther...no rank is given.


In a book flyleaf he signs it as follows:
Hans G. Nass
12th SS Panzer Division
"Hitlerjugend"
2tes regiment
1tes Battalion
2te Company
Obersturmführer, A.D.
(and his signature)

And on a later page adds:
My Panther tank 212
My Königstiger Panzer 200

I have also seen many items of German photo identity (postwar) that definitely proves that that is his real name.
Incidently, I think that looking at that website all the names of the reenactors are fake names so one would assume that "Horst" whatever would be a fake one too...that's what I assumed. (No, I am not on there or anything.) I don't really think it was ever to be assumed that 'Horst' was his real name, nobody elses was. By the way I believe I heard that the last name was his mother's maiden name, or maybe grandmother.

One last thing, in that same book I mentioned above, there is a photo whose caption says "the tiger II '200' of the 2. Kompany s. Pz.Abt.503 crossing a barricade ....blah blah.... The s. Pz. Abt. 503 subsequestly became part of the Panzer Korps "Feldherrenhalle" on 21 Dec 44 and was renamed s. Pz Abt. 'Feldherrenhalle'.
I'm sure you've all seen it (I admit I am not a tank enthusiast so am ignorant here). Anyway in ink he wrote on the picture "Budapest 1944"
and below it wrote "I am in the middle".

So. Here is some more ammunition to help soleve the puzzle--one way or the other. I have a fair bit more, but have written too long already. As I said, I am neutral--I have expressed my personal beliefs above--but as I know the man and feel he has been pretty open with everyone, I'd like to see this settled for sure one way or the other. Right now until it is, I will feel funny if I see him again, not knowing the truth and afraid to ask--yet questioning in my mind what he says.

Can you all help here?
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Wolfkin
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Post by Wolfkin »

Here is some info for y'all!

Hauptsturmfuhrer Hans Siegel was the Kompaniechef of the 8th Panzer Kompanie of the 12th SS Panzer Regiment during Normandy. He took command of the II Abteilung of the 12th SS Panzer Regiment in November of 1944. He was promoted Sturmbannfuhrer in April of 1945.

The 12th SS Panzer Division's 12th SS Panzer Regiment participated in the Ardennes with only one Panzer Abteilung, the I Abteilung, under Sturmbannfuhrer Arnold Jurgensen. Obersturmfuhrer Rudolf von Ribbentrop then took over after Jurgensen was killed. Ribbentrop was promoted to Hauptsturmfuhrer on January 30, 1945.

So, in the Ardennes, it was the I Abteilung with the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 6th Kompanie. The II Abteilung with the 2nd, 4th, 7th and 8th Kompanie had stayed behind at troop training grounds. It was not until the campaign in Hungary that the men of the II Abteiling rejoined the 12th SS Panzer Regiment. In Hungary, the II Abteilung operated the Panzer and the I Abteilung operated as infantry.

If this man indeed was in the II Abteilung, he should mention that he was at a troop training ground and not at all in the Ardennes. Do I need to go into detail on how "212" could not be a HJ Panther? I'll give y'all a hint: 215, 216, 217, 218, 219, 225, 226, 227, 228...etc. :D

I do not know what to think. In my over ten years of research I have found that it is best to combine veterans accounts with records and documents. You need both to see what happend. Veterans accounts can be good for a feel of what happened but many details can be incorrect, that is understandable. At the same time there can be mistakes in accounts, documents and records.

Also, I have seen, and this may be what we have here, is one of those old "How I won the war" stories. Simply, someone exaggerating their career. Haven't y'all seen how sometimes the old war stories seem to get a little colourful? Or, just simply this may be a fake. Who knows?

All I have to say, is that if people want to fake someone they had better do some better research and learn a lot more about this subject before they try to get some of this by people who have spent years researching this. I mean, come on! :D 8) :wink:

Maybe I should create a fake veteran! I could do a way better job!

Cheers,

Wolfkin
Amateurs limit their study to either Tactics, Strategy or Logistics. Professionals study ALL THREE of these!!!
heinz kling

Königstiger 200?

Post by heinz kling »

That means Nass was a Kompanieführer in the sSSPzAbt 501? I have never come across such a name in the Abteilung. Can you help on this, Wolfkin?
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Post by Timo »

He never said he was with s.SS-Pz.Abt.501, he said he was with 2. Kompany s. Pz.Abt.503 (Heer)

Anyway, unless somebody shows up with more evidence, it is my opinion that he was with the SS but not as an officer.
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Post by Siegfried »

I'm with you Timo, 'in the SS, but not an officer'. But now just what the heck DID he do? A buddy of mine who has never been on this forum is as concerned with 'the truth' on this as I am and has apparently been in extsnsive correspondance with the man. He has a pretty extensive autobiography written by Hans about three years ago and has loaned it to me to help figure this out. Most of it is in German which I have to really struggle with unfortunately, but I have spent the last couple days with the English portion--and in it I find some grave contradictions--but like Wolfkin says, memories are not all that good. Most all of it is anecdotal but there are enough facts I think to put some of this puzzle together--one way or another.
Being a veteran (not WWII) myself some twenty some years ago, I find it somewhat hard to believe that he can't remember certain things, or that he doesn't mention date of major promotions (like getting to be an officer) and so on. Those things are pretty foremost in most vet's minds.
He does mention being a Standartenoberjunker and being "one step away from making it to Untersturmfuhrer, and had just been made a Zugfuhrer, with 3 panthers and 3 Panzer IVs under my command."
I'm not an armor enthusiast, so I don't know if any of this makes sense or not. But anyway as near as I can figure out in the narrative, this was sometime in late Janurary 1945.
There is a bit about Bad Tolz in the German portion of the memiors, but I can't read it well enough to repeat here, but it seems to deal mostly with his being a 'fresh baked Untersturmfuhrer' and more anecdotal stuff. But unfortunately the rest of it is too confusing for my limited language skills.

Playing devil's advocate here (and I am by no means saying this is what happened); maybe he was in fact an officer candidate, but the war ended before he graduated for his commission, so afterwards he just called himself a Sturmfuhrer becuase he figured he did all the work and it wasn't his fault everything ended before he got his 'reward'. Does that sound logical? And then it became over the years a situation Wolkin describes; that the stories got better and better.
Does this make any sense?

I kind of hate digging through the man's life like this, but beings as how myself and friends do see him at the reenactments etc., where he has always been very enthiusiastic and helpful, I really want to find out just how to 'deal' with him. What's real and what's not.
He is in fact a very nice man and I can tell he enjoys being 'the old vet'. But one can look at it two ways; if he is in fact mostly real (I don't think there is any question at this point that he grossly exaggerates at best), he deserves the dignity and respect that one should show an old soldier who has been places and seen things that would horrify most of us. However if on the other hand he is making it all up, was perhaps just in some training unit for a month or so and 'perloined' all the war experiences...well, to paraphrase the Oberst Brandt character in "Cross of Iron", I feel there is nothing much worse than stealing the laurels of a dead soldier.
I of course hope that it is the former, but I (and my friends) really need to feel comfortable with what he says--so I really want to find out what's real or not.
"War stories" I don't mind--they're enlightening and entertaining if nothing else--but out and out fabrication...well like Wolfkin says, I could make up my own better.

I have a bunch of material here about him. Can anyone think of ways to figure this out?

Thanks a lot,
SW~
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Post by Timo »

Well, problem is that Hans Nass, Naß, or similar does not appear on any candidates list of Junkerschule Bad Tölz. John Moore and I has contact with Josef Hahne through email and asked him to contact Nass and ask him two name some fellow candidates from the Junkerschule so we can verify these names with the candidates lists, but for some reason Josef does not want to bother Nass with this question.
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Post by Abwehr »

Siegfried wrote:He does mention being a Standartenoberjunker and being "one step away from making it to Untersturmfuhrer, and had just been made a Zugfuhrer, with 3 panthers and 3 Panzer IVs under my command."
A Zug with six tanks of differing types would have been EXTREMELY unlikely at any point in the war, especially 1945. Many kompanies were down to six tanks by this point, and Panthers and Panzer IV's were usually in different battalions, let alone platoons....
heinz kling

What?

Post by heinz kling »

Timo wrote:He never said he was with s.SS-Pz.Abt.501, he said he was with 2. Kompany s. Pz.Abt.503 (Heer)

Anyway, unless somebody shows up with more evidence, it is my opinion that he was with the SS but not as an officer.
That has been proven next to impossible that a HJ officer will be commanding a FHH kompanie in Budapest, and in a Königstiger that was somebody else'. Guess he may be a Hiwi in the last stages of the war.
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Re: What?

Post by Timo »

heinz kling wrote:Guess he may be a Hiwi in the last stages of the war.
...A HiWi with the bloodgroup tattoo? No, he was a Waffen-SS man. But no officer.
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