1942/43: Battle-groups in the Steppe (sw of Stalingrad).....

[Commissar D, the Evil]

Hi Guys!

I have Generalleutnant Frieherr von Gablenz, Kdr., 384 I.D. and his staff taking command of the sector of Gruppes Adam and Heilman on 12 December, 1942. On 14 December, 1942, the Russian 7th Tank Corps attacked between the Don bridge at Werchne-Tschirskij and Erickij in the 384 I.D.'s sector. At this time 384 I.D. was made up of Kampfgruppen Heilman, Adam, Mikosch and Goebel.

Best Regards, DCC

[Abel Ravasz]

Weren't KGs Mikosch and Goebel parts of Gr. Adam?

Was this unit referred to as 384. ID? When was it disbanded?

Best,

Abel

[Michi]

Indeed, there is a difference in Gruppen & Kampfgruppen.

A KAMPFGRUPPE was in most cases an ad-hoc unit of various size and various equipment, but more or less the maximum size was a regiment.

A GRUPPE (at least at the Chir-River) was a superior unit of Kampfgruppen. It could happen that Kampfgruppen and 'normal' units were subordinated to a Gruppe.

For the Chir-River Front I have following Gruppen:
Gruppe Adam later Gruppe Abraham
Gruppe Stumpfeld
Gruppe Stahel
Gruppe Spang


For the Steppe Front I have following Gruppen:
Gruppe von Pannwitz
Gruppe Auleb


ALL OTHERS were Kampfgruppen!!


MfG Michi


PS: For the 384. InfDiv & Gruppe Adam, I will post sth, when I find my sources again.

[Abel Ravasz]

Yes, that was exactly what I was referring to.

Abel

[Michi]

Hello Abel,

The history of
Kampfgruppe Goebel (19./20. Nov 42 - 25./26. Nov 42)
later
Gruppe Adam (25./26. Nov 42 - ?????)
later
Gruppe Abraham (???? - ?????)

On 19th/20th Naovember 1942 the nucleus of Gruppe Adam was formed by a Hauptmann/Captain Goebel.
(one thing in common in my sources, he is written with oe and not with ö!!)
Within 24 houres, he 'collected' some 3000 soldiers and a few heavy weapons.
With the following radio message, the KaGru/b-grp Goebel got known in the staff of the 6th Army:
"Kampfgruppe Hauptmann Goebel hält mit 3000 Mann Donbrücke (Werchne) Tschir(skaja). Haltet den Kopf hoch wie wir!"
"Battle-group Captain Goebel with 3000 men holds the Don-River bridge at (Werchne) Chir(skaya). Keep the head up, as we do"
For Paulus it was impossible that a simple Captain is able to lead 3000 men successfully.
So Paulus ordered his Adjutant Oberst/Colonel Adam as CO of the new reformed Gruppe Adam.
Some days later Obst./Col. Adam was ordered back to the pocket of Stalingrad.
His successor was Oberst/Colonel Abraham, the CO of the Officer's School of the 6th Army, at this time CO of the Kampfgruppe/battle-group Abraham within the Gruppe/Group Stumpfeld. Who the successor of Abraham at his KaGru/b-grp was, I don't know.

So the
Kampfgruppe Goebel became Gruppe Adam,
and
Gruppe Adam became Gruppe Abraham.


MfG Michi


MfG Michi

[Abel Ravasz]

Thanks for this very interesting info, Michi!

Best,

Abel

[Commissar D, the Evil]

Was this unit referred to as 384. ID? When was it disbanded?

Hi Abel, well, this requires more research, but 384 I.D. was gradually strengthened and was eventually wiped out in Southern Russia in August of 1944. So, a closer look must be had of what was incorporated into the unit, when it received reinforcements, etc.

Best Regards, DCC

[Michi]

Hello DCC!!!


Maybe we can do it after the PzVbd 700???



MfG Michi

[Commissar D, the Evil]

Sounds Great to me Michi!!! Just say the word and I'll start looking into the 384th.

Best Regards, DCC

[Michi]

Hello DCC!!

Man, chap, you have the second face!!

Me silly me.
I did write a half sentence, and you untied my complete thought!!

Yes, indeed I ment:
Start researching the 384. InfDiv after bringing the mysterious truth of the PzVbd 700 into daylight!!!



MfG Michi

[Michi]

@ Abel:

re: Kampfgruppe Heilmann:

07/01/1943:
Kampfgruppe Oberstleutnant Heilmann:
Teile 3. InfDiv(mot)
Teile 60. InfDiv(mot)
Alarmeinheiten
Marscheinheiten


16/01/1943:
Kampfgruppe Oberstleutnant Heilmann:
Alarmeinheiten
Marscheinheiten
(4000 Mann)


MfG Michi

[Abel Ravasz]

Hi Michi,

this info is really fantastic!!! Thank you very much!!!

Abel

[Eduard]

Michi,


I wasn't aware that certain "units" of 3rd and 60th PZG where outside (?) of the pocket.

Do your sources tell wich "teile" they where? Masybe train units??

Thanks, Eduard

[Michi]

I wasn't aware that certain "units" of 3rd and 60th PZG where outside (?) of the pocket.

The same to me.

Do your sources tell wich "teile" they where? Masybe train units

Just ''Teile", nothing else, but I guess train units. Maybe I can find sth about this LtCol Heilmann.


MfG Michi

[Abel Ravasz]

HEILMANN, Otto RK: Oberst, Kdr. Gren.Rgt. 671 RK: 9.06.44

Could this be the same Heilmann? It is possible tht he was member of the 371. ID at the time of Stalingrad, was not encircled, commanded a Kampfgruppe and took part of the reorganization of this division, recieving the command of the 671. GrR?

Best,

Abel