Kriegsmarine in Corsica 1943

German Kriegsmarine 1935-1945.

Moderator: phylo_roadking

User avatar
Lupo Solitario
Contributor
Posts: 353
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2002 12:15 am
Location: Italy, EU

Kriegsmarine in Corsica 1943

Post by Lupo Solitario » Wed Sep 24, 2003 9:38 am

Hi

I'm looking for a list of kriegsmarine units which were deployed in Sardinia Corsica in september 1943. Overall I'm interested in units operating at Bonifacio in southern Corsica( there should have been a submarine-hunter unit). Infos about coastal batteries would be appreciated too

thanks
Lupo

Peter K.
Contributor
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 11:51 am
Location: Austria

Sardinia - Corsica

Post by Peter K. » Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:20 am

Hello LUPO!

I´m working on this subject some times ago - perhaps we could work together!

Here are the German vessels, which were involved in the evacuation of Sardinia to Corsica:

09.09.: 4 SF
10.09.: 5 SF
11.09.: 5 SF, 2 R-boats, 3 Fl.B.-boats
12.09.: 6 SF, 6 MFP, 10 I-boats, 3 L-boats
13.09.: 6 SF, 11 MFP, 10 I-boats, 3 L-boats, 3 Fl.B.-boats
14.09.: 5 SF, 11 MFP, 10 I-boats, 3 L-boats, 3 Fl.B.-boats
15.09.: 4 SF, 11 MFP, 10 I-boats, 3 L-boats, 3 Fl.B.-boats
16.09.: 6 SF, 9 MFP, 10 I-boats, 1 L-boats, 3 Fl.B.-boats

source: war diary of Seetransportstelle Bonifacio

Greetings from Austria
Peter K.

User avatar
Lupo Solitario
Contributor
Posts: 353
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2002 12:15 am
Location: Italy, EU

Post by Lupo Solitario » Mon Sep 29, 2003 2:42 pm

Thanks peter I would be very happy to cohoperate with you as much as possible

Question: where did all those units come from? I'm not so fond in german names, could you describe a bit those units?

thank you a lot
Lupo

Peter K.
Contributor
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 11:51 am
Location: Austria

short description

Post by Peter K. » Tue Sep 30, 2003 12:10 pm

Hello LUPO !


SF = Siebelfähre

It´s a general term for various typs of landing ferries, originally developped for operation SEALION, f.e.
B-Fähre 40 = Leichte Fähre 40 = L.F.40
H-Fähre 40 = Herbert-Fähre = Mittlere Fähre = M.F.
Schwere Fähre 40 = s.F.40 = s.S.40
Schwere Fähre 41 = s.F.41
Siebelfähre 40 = SF40
Siebelfähre 41 = SF41
Siebelfähre 43 = Siebel Typ II = S-Fähre Serie V
Siebelfähre 44 = S-Fähre Serie VIII
Pionier-Landungsfähre 41 = PiLf41
Pionier-Landungsfähre 44 = PiLf44

The most common type was the Siebelfähre 40, which was also built as heavy AA ferry (2-4x8,8cm, 1-4x2cm), light AA ferry (4x2 or 3,7cm), mine laying ferry (20-48 mines), crane ferry, hospital ferry and repair ferry.
Here
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/bi ... bik/fp.htm
you will find SF161 and a other.

MFP = Marinefährprahm

The MFP´s were the most important amphibious vessels of the German navy, also built by the Italians. There were the following typs:
A, A1 (for heavy tanks captured from the Russians), AM (mine layer), B, C, C2 (for TIGER-tanks), C2M (mine layer), D and DM (mine layer), moreover the Italian types MZ-A and MZ-B and some special variants (hospital, repair, mine barrage, Q-ship, tanker).

Here
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/bi ... bik/fp.htm
you will find F115, an early type A, and here
http://www.warships1.com/German_amphibs.htm
some technicla data.

L-boat = Landungsboot

Small landing crafts, also built in various types:
PiLb39 = Kleines Landungsboot 39 = Pionierlandungsboot39 =
PiLaBo (loading 20 t or 100 men)
PiLb40 = Großes Landungsboot 40 = Pionierlandungsboot40 =
PiLaBo40 (loading 40 t or 150 men or 2 vehicles)
PiLb41 = Großes Landungsboot 41 = Pionierlandungsboot41 = PiLaBo41 (loading 40 t or 150 men or 2 vehicles)
PiLb43 = Pionierlandungsboot43 = PiLaBo43
(loading 100 t or 250 men)

Here
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/bi ... bik/fp.htm
you will find PiLb405, a PiLb40-type.

I-boat = Infanterietransporter

Also a small landing craft with a loading capacity of 7 t or 40 men.
Sorry, I found no online picture ... :?

Finally there were the Sturmboote:
Leichtes Sturmboot 39 (loading 0,5 t = 6 men)
links
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/bi ... pistbt.htm
http://www.feldgrau.com/heer-pab.html
Schweres Sturmboot 42 (loading 3 t = 40 men)
no link - sorry

R-boat = Räumboot

These small motor vessels were originally developped for clearing mine barrages (some with very manoeverable Voith-Schneider-propellars), but they were used also for sub chashing and escort duties.
link:
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/bi ... wulf.htm#B

Fl.B.-boat = Flugbetriebsboot

These are also small motor boats, operated by the German airforce for rescue missions. This B-class was also built in various typs, ranging from 18 to 65 t deplacement.
Sorry, again no link ...

I hope, this will help a little bit ...


Greetings from Austria
Peter K.[/b]

Peter K.
Contributor
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 11:51 am
Location: Austria

Bonifacio

Post by Peter K. » Tue Sep 30, 2003 12:42 pm

Hi again!

... some more details ...

On 08.09. there was at least SF176 available at Bonifacio, which was used as harbor defence vessel during the night 08./09.09. One other SF was out of service due to engine repairs. But because there was some ferry traffic to Sardinia (5 motor vehicles and 2 t supplies from Sardinia to Corsica and 20 motor vehicles and 30 t supplies from Corsica to Sardinia) there should be some additional SF´s.

On 09.09. there was no ferry traffic to Sardinia until midday.
Then 4 operational SF´s transported 2 vehicles to Sardinia and 28 motor vehicles, 1 artillery gun, 50 t of fuel and 65 t of ammunition and supplies from Sardinia to Corsica.
Order was given to start ferry traffic to Sardinia all day and night!

On 10.09. 5 SF´s were operational, one aditional was under engine repair. They ferried 104 motor vehicles, 12 artillery guns, 135 t of fuel and supplies and 442 men to Corsica and 403 Italian solders to Sardinia.

On 11.09. 5 SF´s were operational. They were heavily loaded with 80-90 t each, so small engine repairs were necessary from time zu time. The SF´s ferried together with 2 R-boats and 3 Fl.B.boats 215 motor vehicles, 21 artillery guns, 230 t of supplies and 1427 men to Sardinia.

...

I could send an excel sheet of the war diary of Seetransportstelle Bonifacio (04.09.-19.09.) with more details - but it´s in German! :?


Greetings
Peter K.

ptdockyard
Supporter
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:14 am
Contact:

Pictures of German Landing craft

Post by ptdockyard » Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:09 am

I have posted a picture of an Infantrieandungsboot in the "Files" section of the following group

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/narrowseas/

Does anyone know if any ex-Italian craft were used in this evacuation?

Dave
Dave Gregory
The PT Dockyard

Peter K.
Contributor
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 11:51 am
Location: Austria

Italian vessels involved in Sardinia evacuation

Post by Peter K. » Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:38 pm

Hello DAVE !

The Italian vessel "CISTERNE 44" was captured at Bonifacio on 13.09.43, 12.15, by 20 men of Seetransportstelle Bonifacio, the subs "H6" and "RISMONDO" by "R200".

On 14.09.43 the "CISTERNE 44" was manned with personal, which was planned for "SAN JOSE" at Olbia.

On 16.09.43, 13.00, the loading of "CISTERNE 44" with 140 t of catering begun.

On 17.09.43, 14.00, "CISTERNE 44" finished the loading of 100 t of catering and 40 t of ammunition and left Bonifacio for Porto Vecchio on 15.00.
Also on 17.09.43, 16.00, the captured Italian patrol boats "B73" and "B120" were commissioned by the crews of the unservicable German patrol boats "VP 7012" and "VP 7013".

on 18.09.43, 09.00, the sub "H6" was scuttled and on 12.00 the sub "RISMONDO" followed.

source: war diary Seetransportstelle Bonifacio

Greetings from Austria
Peter K.

ptdockyard
Supporter
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:14 am
Contact:

Italian craft- Corsica 1943

Post by ptdockyard » Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:55 pm

Peter,
Thank you.

One craft I am interested in is any German use of the small "MotoLance" landing craft built for the Italian Navy for the invasion of Malta. About 70 were built 1942-43 and they resemble the German Infantrielandungsboot excepth they are a little smalller ( 16m long) and appear to have an armored control station and a 13mm MG on the port bow. I have several pictures but no reference as to Geman use.

Dave
Dave Gregory
The PT Dockyard

Peter K.
Contributor
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 11:51 am
Location: Austria

Italian landing vessels

Post by Peter K. » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:00 am

Hello DAVE!

My German friend THEO just sent me some interesting data concerning the Italian landing landing boats. I am reposting his message as followed:

Italienische Infanterie-Landungsboote
6 Ldt; 14,50 x 3,00 x 0,55 m; 10 - 12 kn;
Bew.: 1/13,2 mmMG

I-01: ital. I-Boot 664; 15.6.1944 i. D., 2. Transp.Fl.
I-02: ital. I-Boot 665; 1944 2. Transp.Fl.
I-03: ital. I-Boot 666; 10.8.1944 i. D., 2. Transp.Fl.
I-04: ital. I-Boot 685; 1944 2. Transp.Fl.

Italienische Landungsboote
(motolancia da sbarco a fondo piatta)
15 Ldt; 21,00 x 3,70 x 1,50 m; 10 kn;

ML 813: 7.1944 bei 2. Transp.Fl.;
18.7.1944 (+) Ancona/Sprengung
ML 815 - Totila: 14.7.1944 i.D., 2. Transp.Fl.
Bew.: 2/2; 1/13,2 mm MG;
ML 816: 8.7.1944 i. D., 2.Transp.Fl.;
Bew.: 1/13,2 mm MG;
31.8.1944 + Porto Levante/Jabo


I hope, there is something useful for you!

I for my part would me very interested in these pictures of the vessels! ;-)

Greetings from Austria
Peter K.

ptdockyard
Supporter
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:14 am
Contact:

Post by ptdockyard » Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:50 pm

Beautiful! This is the first information I have of them in German use.

Pictures can be seen at :
http://digilander.libero.it/avantisavoi ... 0Malta.htm

Write me offline- I have one or two others also.

Dave
Dave Gregory
The PT Dockyard

User avatar
Enrico Cernuschi
Patron
Posts: 1086
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2002 2:05 am
Location: Pavia

Post by Enrico Cernuschi » Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:13 am

Quite interesting news.
Any further piece of news about the Italial ML is a blessing as they are one on the white pages of the Italian navy history. Were other barges of this kind seized by the Germans and where?
EC

ptdockyard
Supporter
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:14 am
Contact:

Small Italian Landing craft

Post by ptdockyard » Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:16 am

The "Italian I-boot" ( Motolance) is covered in the book": Navi da Guerra Italiane 1940-1945" by Bagnasco-Cernuschi, E.-E. with two pictures and some text. About 40 were made.

The second type is also pictured in that book but is not documented. It appears these were civilian craft originally used in Venice that were modified for landing operations. One photo I have suggests a low armored cockpit in front of the personnel/cargo area and a 13mm MG aft. The book above shows a hull number 819 while another picture I have shows 801 so probably at least 19 were converted.

This is great information as I knew they had to have been used by the Germans, but had no documentation.

I have electronic pictures of both if interested...
Dave Gregory
The PT Dockyard

Peter K.
Contributor
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 11:51 am
Location: Austria

Italian landing vessels

Post by Peter K. » Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:22 pm

Hello DAVE and ENRICO!

... some short news:

It seems, that 3 former Italian landing vessels were used by the Germans at Toulon as harbor defence boats. But there were further researches necessary ...

I´ll contact you, if there is something to report!

Greetings from Austria
Peter K.

User avatar
Piet Duits
Associate
Posts: 729
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:51 pm
Location: Oudenbosch, Nederland

Le Truppe Italiane in Corsica

Post by Piet Duits » Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:30 pm

Hi,

I have leant this book, which is in Italian: Le Truppe Italiane in Corsica (Prima e dopo l'Armistizio dell'8 Settembre 1943), by Gen. Giovanni Magli.

It deals with the italian armed forces on the island. Does any of you know about this book?

Unfortunatelly, no ISBN in here, since it is from 1952.

Piet
Nur für den Dienstgebrauch

User avatar
Lupo Solitario
Contributor
Posts: 353
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2002 12:15 am
Location: Italy, EU

Re: Le Truppe Italiane in Corsica

Post by Lupo Solitario » Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:31 am

Piet Duits wrote:Hi,

I have leant this book, which is in Italian: Le Truppe Italiane in Corsica (Prima e dopo l'Armistizio dell'8 Settembre 1943), by Gen. Giovanni Magli.

It deals with the italian armed forces on the island. Does any of you know about this book?

Unfortunatelly, no ISBN in here, since it is from 1952.

Piet

sorry Piet, a totally off print book, I have an xerox copy (uncomplete) which had costed me swearing a lot.
More it's useful only if you read italian.
Anyway I can give you other infos if you need

bye
Lupo

PS ciao Peter I'm sorry having been silent for a bit but I've been away in last weeks

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron