Panzer Regiment 15 -11 PZ- in the area of CHARTRES august 44

Rico · Post by **Rico** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:14 am

I am looking for more informations about a part of Panzer Regiment 15 of 11 Panzer which crossed the area of Chartres in august in order to give its panzer IV to an unidentified unit near Dreux. 10 panzer were lost betwin Orléans and Chartres, I have got 3 photos of this panzer, US diary report and 2 german maps about this travel. Who can help me ?

lebedo · Post by **lebedo** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:19 am

Sorry it's an old post.I read in 39/45 magazine about the battle of Chartres that the 5. and 6.Kpien were sent to this area.

condor_64 · Post by **condor_64** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:40 pm

Hello
The following information is from the books „Geschichte des PzRgt-15” (history of PzRgt-15) by G. Schrodek and “Der deutsche Rückzug aus Frankreich 1944” (German retreat from France 1944) by J. Ludewig:

6 Aug 44:
German CiC West orders 11.PzDiv to turn over all tanks of II./PzRgt-15 as replacement tanks to Heeresgruppe “B”.

10 or 11 Aug 44:
61 PzIV of II./PzRgt-15 are loaded near Bordeaux on two railway trains (guess the other 15 PzIV were in repair or maintenance and stayed with 11.PzD). One train was commanded by Maj. Berger (CO of II./PzRgt-15), the other by Oblt. Graf Sierstorpff (CO of 8.Kp/PzRgt-15). Every tank was crewed only by the commander and the driver. On every train besides the tanks there was one car, one truck and one field-kitchen.

12-15 Aug 44
The trains arrived at Orleans, but the tanks had to continue their travel by road because the rail bridge over the Loire was destroyed. The columns moved (separate from each other) only in the night and spent the daylight camouflaged in woods. Via Chartres they reached Dreux, where in the night 15th to 16th Aug 44 the tanks were handed over to an unknown SS-PzDiv. In the book by Schrodek there are no hints on skirmishes with the Marqis.

16 Aug – late Aug 44
The two transfer teams moved in requisitioned vehicles to Paris, were both units were reunited and continued by road to Besancon to join 11.PzDiv (with small skirmishes with the French resistance). Maj. Berger was from Paris recalled to Berlin.

Schrodek notes, that the 6.Kp/PzRgt-15 (CO Oblt. Graf Hoyos) with 15 overhauled PzIV was the only company of II:/PzRgt-15 that took part in the Rhone valley campaign. Their first combat was 25th Aug 44 South of the Durance river. I guess there were 5 more PzIV in the recce platoon of the regimental HQ.

Has someone additions/corrections to the above? Which SS-PzDiv received the PzIV? Did the 11.PzD receive some replacements for their transferred PzIV? Perhaps some older PzIII from 273.ReservePzDiv?
Thanks in advance
Ralf

lebedo · Post by **lebedo** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:05 am

Apparently it was the only Pz4 co involved in the Rhone valley fighting,but it was in support of KG THIEME north of the Drome river at the date you give.Other Pz4 were in the stabpzrgt

michael kenny · Post by **michael kenny** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:18 am

lebedo wrote: Sorry it's an old post.I read in 39/45 magazine about the battle of Chartres that the 5. and 6.Kpien were sent to this area.

It was probably written by Rico after he posted here for further information..

http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopi ... ght=#33958

lebedo · Post by **lebedo** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:55 am

Here's what I have about this rgt:on the 5th August,the division had 80Pz4 ,5 of them in repair.On the 7th of August,received the order to send to Normandy 30 of them,one of which(5 Kie) is destroyed near Chartres and 7 in repair for mechanical damage.The Stab pzrgt had 8 Mobelwagen,5 Pzr4 and 3 Panther.Apparently the stab is in Lyon at the end of August.The 6Kie is represented in support of the 1/110 pzgren and the 2/Pzaie while they move from Valence to Romans(25-27th August).Hope this helps.Could you give me info about the fight of the Pzrgt in the Rhone valley,especially during the battle of Montélimar.I think it was dispatched between the various KG the division had,but I don't know how.Thanks..

Panther Al · Post by **Panther Al** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:42 pm

condor_64 wrote:
*snipped for compactness*

Has someone additions/corrections to the above? Which SS-PzDiv received the PzIV? Did the 11.PzD receive some replacements for their transferred PzIV? Perhaps some older PzIII from 273.ReservePzDiv?
Thanks in advance
Ralf

Ron Klages in this thread says that in August of 44, the division recieved 26 PzIII, I was hoping to find out how they was used and assigned: Either mixed in with PzIV's, or perhaps in thier own company or platoons?

Martin Block · Post by **Martin Block** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:59 pm

The first status report of 11. Pz.Div. on 1.6.1944 after the incorporation of the 273. Res.Pz.Div. during May 1944 shows 10 Pz. III with the division, all of them in the inventory of Pz.Art.Rgt. 119:
3 Pz.Beob. III
3 Pz. III 50lg
4 Pz. III 75kz

In the report dated 1.7.1944 the number has increased to a total of 13 Pz. III:
4 Pz. III without any further specification with the Stabskp. I./Pz.Rgt. 15
9 Pz.Beob. III with Pz.Art.Rgt. 119

In the report dated 1.8.1944 one can again find a total of 13 Pz. III:
4 Pz. III kz with the Stabskp. I./Pz.Rgt. 15 (There's no caliber given, but I assume these were the 75kz listed on 1.6.1944)
9 Pz.Beob. III with Pz.Art.Rgt. 119 (it is remarked that 7 of them were only makeshift from Pz. III kz + lg)

And finally in the report dated 1.9.1944 the number has been reduced to 8 Pz. III:
4 Pz. III without any further specification now with the Stabskp. II./Pz.Rgt. 15 instead of the I./Pz.Rgt. 15
4 Pz.Beob. III with Pz.Art.Rgt. 119 (it is remarked that 2 of them were only makeshift from Pz. III kz + lg)

It doesn't look to me as if 26 Pz. III were delivered during August and actually I have never heard of that and have found no clue about it in any other records. There is also no mentioning of such a delivery in the regimental history of Pz.Rgt. 15. Or am I misunderstanding something in Ron's post? Does the figure not refer to a delivery but to an on hand strength during August 1944? Anyway, I can't match it with any of the records I have available.

Martin Block

lebedo · Post by **lebedo** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:53 am

Hi!Does anybody knows how was organized the division in August-September 1944?I read that it was divided in several Kampfgruppen:Thieme,Wilde and Hax;could somebody provide its Toe for this period or the ones for these Kg,because I can't find the book about the story of PR15 or the one written on the retreat of the 19th Army in the Rhone Valley?Thanks.

Jan-Hendrik · Post by **Jan-Hendrik** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:18 am

Maybe you look for this book by Jörg Staiger :

Rückzug durchs Rhônetal.Abwehr- und Verzögerungskampf der 19. Armee im Herbst 1944 unter besonderer Berücksichtigung des Einsatzes der 11.Panzer-Division. (= Die Wehrmacht im Kampf, 39). Neckargemünd 1965

Jan-Hendrik

lebedo · Post by **lebedo** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:19 am

Thanks,but I have this book.

uli M · Post by **uli M** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:23 pm

I can add pics of 11. Panzer Division Panzer IV at river Rhone valley.

Regards Uli

lebedo · Post by **lebedo** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:00 am

Thanks Uli!

Jan-Hendrik · Post by **Jan-Hendrik** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:38 am

Maybe of interest:

Zustandsbericht 11.PD 1st August 1944

Jan-Hendrik

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:39 am

Jan-Hendrik wrote:Maybe of interest:

Zustandsbericht 11.PD 1st August 1944

Jan-Hendrik

Very interesting Jan! Thanks. Do you have any idea why they had over 1,500 personnel leave the division for miscellaneous reasons in July? Was there a transfer of personnel to another division or divisions? I am also curious what the battle casualties in March were due to? Allied bombing? French partisan activity?

Feldgrau.net

Panzer Regiment 15 -11 PZ- in the area of CHARTRES august 44

Panzer Regiment 15 -11 PZ- in the area of CHARTRES august 44

Pics of Panzer IV