IRA and Germany in WW2

[phylo_roadking]

I think even you would agree you're being unnecessarily obtuse on this, Sid - the arrival of the Romans was indeed one of the landmark moments in British history because it started the process of dragging Britain kicking and screaming out of the remains of Celtic civilisation and into mediterranean-centered cvilisation. But those "colonists" the Romans had been aware of and in contact with The British Isles for hundreds of years, and the Greeks before them - enough so that Homer could incorporate them fleetingly into his poetry and the average Greek listener would have known where/what he was talking about, even in VERY hazy folklore terms; there was nothing new to them about tales of Ultima Thule ( the Greek Thule, not the Germanic one, just tomake perfectly clear) And you're quite aware that was my point.

[sid guttridge]

Hi Phylo,

I don't agree at all. Accurate facts and their accurate presentation matter. Many of your posts are weak in both areas. I have a choice - let inaccurate supposed facts and/or the inaccurate presentation of them pass and misinform others, or try to rectify them. I choose to rectify them.

If I want to be pedantic I could, for example, contradict your talk of Celtic "civilisation". Civilisation refers to urban living. The pre-Roman Celts of Western Europe did not live an urban existence as the term "civilisation" implies, except possibly in the very south of France where some had been exposed to the Greek city of Marseilles for several centuries before Roman intervention. However, the usage or misusage of the term "civilisation" is now so widely advanced in place of "culture" that that is probably a battle lost.

It is very questionable that the Romans had long been in contact with Britain. Aware, yes, through indirect trade. However, I think there is little or no evidence that they were in direct contact before Caesar. In the loosest sense Roman Britain was also "in contact" with China through indirect trade, but this has little practical meaning.

I very much doubt the average Greek would have known about the British Isles. This was specialist knowledge the average goat herd had no need of. Indeed, it was for long probably commercially sensitive information.

Cheers,

Sid.

[phylo_roadking]

Sid, I find the first few lines of your last post quite strange, given that you didnt involve yourself in the correcting of historical inaccuracies and slanders elsewhere....? You see to maintain this policy strictly in regard to myself. thats your problem, not mine. As you're a champion of democracy, free speech and fairness - I assume you'll from this point be correcting everyone's posts on the Forum as you say above? Only democratic, that. And being a generous soul would like to spare you the time and trouble of searching out only mine for attention.


Regarding "civilisation" - just using the term my lecturers/tutors used....they were of the opinion that celtic "culture" was too homogenous europe-wide to merit a lesser term.

British gold, oysters, pearls, tin (obviously), several dyes, hunting dogs and ponies were all well-known in Rome up to 150 years before Caesar, as a whole variety of records show. Roman traders were making sea voyages to Britain for this time forward -basically exploring carthaginian routes - though often not more than a few times in a trading lifetime. It wasn't a regular, scheduled trade - but no trade that far outside the boundaries of the burgeoning Roman mega-state was -whether by caravan into Germany, by sea into the old Greek colonies on the Black Sea....or to Britain. But Romans had had first-hand knowledge of Britain and its wealth in the past and by ancient terms relatively frequently. And a very small amount of Roman luxury goods were finding their way north through Gaul.

No, the average Greek goat-herder wouldn't have known about - or cared about - Britain; but as in Rome, in Greece too - it was buying-power that drove merchants further afield, and it was those with money for foreign imports who also had the luxury of time for learning and literature. Homer's poems - for instance - weren't for audiences of goat-herds...but of the feasting wealthy, the ones with trained imaginations and sometimes venture capital....

Commercially sensitive to the Phoenicians, yes - they were very secretive about trade routes etc at a time when they had a nearly sole monopoly on those - but not confidential in Greek and Roman times. The source of tin was far too big a secret to keep for over a thousand years.....

[sid guttridge]

Hi Phylo,

Sorry. I do the same everywhere. Please read my posts.

However, the rate at which I make such corrections depends on the degree to which (1) I notice errors and (2) the frequency with which they are made. Hardly a single one of your posts go by without some clear error of fact or some over certain opinion not well founded. If you checked more of your facts first and qualified your opinions more in the light of different weights of evidence we wouldn't be having this discussion.

With regard to Roman trading voyages to Britain in the 150 years before Caeser we are going beyond my knowledge. What evidence do we have of them? It is presumably literary?

Cheers,

Sid.

[phylo_roadking]

Sid, when I'm mobile again i'll be in Queens' Library that very day and append the evidence here, don't worry. And as you've said it, so shall it be - I'm sure every poster here on Feldgrau will look forward to every post being attended to with such diligence. I'm sure they'll call it to your attention if you slacken up on it....

phylo

[sid guttridge]

Hi Phylo,

This particular topic is way off thread, indeed way off forum. Don't bust a gut on this particular one. I would be interested to know what the Romans had on Britain apart from Pytheas, but it is not essential.

Cheers,

Sid.

[shergar]

was reading a book an in the contents there is a reference to de valera obtaining 3 million from americans at the start of 1920 , from this 20,000 dollars was given as a loan to the bolsevic s in russia and in return some of the imperial crown treasures were given in exchange apparently to this day the irish government still have these in their poscession ,
perhaps some one can elabourate on this at some stage but form ties were not established between the two respective governments for a long time .
shergar

[sid guttridge]

Hi Shergar,

Is there any evidence for this?

Cheers,

Sid.

[shergar]

i have the book to show reference to this matter , ill get the details in the next few days so that all can view it , as to the authenticity of the matter i personally cant stand over it as it was a new revelation to me
mairtin