Italian camouflage cloth on eastern front

[charlie don't surf]

Does anyone know how uniforms made of italian camouflage cloth could appear in Poland 1944? I thought that 12th SS 'Hitlerjugend' was the only unit who used this camouflage.

regards

[12th SS]

Italian camo was not just issued to the 12th SS. It was also issued (but in lesse quantities) to the 1st, Luftwaffe ground units and I have heard of some instances of some Wermacht units, but I am awaiting some pictorial evidence of the Wermacht wearing this.

[charlie don't surf]

I've seen a tank crewman wear pants made of this cloth, the picture says to have been taken in Poland, 1944. Any idea?

regards

[12th SS]

Can you post the pic at all?
Hard to say where a photo was taken unless there is something to back up a statement really.
A friend of mine reckons he has pictures of wermacht and luftwaffe men wearing Italian camo, if I can get them scanned I will post them for you.

[charlie don't surf]

thanks, unfourtunately ican't post the picture since I saw it in a book in a store.

regards

[The Chief]

The Italians were actually the first army to make use of camo cloth. Italian soldiers were issued cammode shelter halves, which could double as a poncho. As the war progressed these tent sections were used more and more as clothing

[Willi]

used by forces in the field and fashioned into clothing by them. I used to own a two-pocket camouflaged jacket with hidden front buttons, two upper pockets with buttoned flap and a draw string at the bottom. It had provisions for the attachment of shoulder straps and had a bevo sleeve eagle. I've always thought that it was factory manufactured but it could have been made by a contractor. It didn't seem like it would have been field made but I could be wrong.

Officially the SS-BW used the Italian camouflaged material in only one factory manufactured garment and that was the late-war anorak (second model which buttoned all the way up the front - was not a pullover and then partial button up). You can encounter these ever so often and they are usually in mint, unissued conditon. I believe Mike Beaver has a photo in his camouflaged book showing one of these in actual use in 1945.

[lennardg]

I´m not sure if they were the first, but I remember a photo of World War ONE british troops on the western front with camouflage helmet covers

[lennardg]

These photos are scans from "Tigers in Combat vol. I" by W.Schneider
They show crew members of S.Pz.Abt 509 in Russia february 1944 and Hungary january 1945.
I´m not sure about the first photo, but on the second one the second man from the right looks like he´s wearing camo-trousers that are NOT printed with wehrmacht splinter pattern (number one from the left looks like he´s wearing SS camo pattern trousers)
Anyone care to comment on this ?

[charlie don't surf]

Yes, it definetily looks like the italian camouflage. Thanks for posting these pictures lennard!

regards

[lennardg]

I found a picture of the anorak mentioned by willi, at :
http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Galleries/Uniforms2.html

Maybe some units outside the SS, like S.Pz.Abt 509 did use
italian army camo-material on the eastern front, in the case of
unteroffizier Bellof in the first picture he even seems
to be wearing a pair of reversible winter camo-trousers
(judging by the characteristic large buttoned fly)
Still, it could also be the tan water pattern :

[PaulW]

Hermann Goring Division as posted to Poland after having been in Italy. (august 1944)This could be a source.

The SS Panzer troops could have been posted from 1st SS to the heavy units in the east and taken their cammies with them. Liebstandarte was in Italy and gained camo stocks after the Italian armistice ( late 1943)

[PaulW]

Scratch that comment about SS troops. The photo shows clearly they are Heer Panzeretruppen!

[lennardg]

The text that comes with the pictures in "Tigers in Combat 1" (which in this case are taken from private archives, i.e the crews themselves) clearly states that they are from Schwere Pz. Abt 509, but It really is difficult to decide if they are wearing Italian army camo (which would be quite interesting as the only pictures I´ve seen of this are of 12 SS and 1 SS troops) or tan water pattern (which was common with Heer units) as far as I know the only S.Pz.Abt serving in Italy was S.Pz.Abt 508, but none of the pictures in the book of this unit shows any camo-uniforms.

[Ostfront]

Of course its not textbook or photo Evidence but I have seen a number of Italian camouflage zeltbahns with the bakelite buttons that have been found in old farmhouses and attics in Estonia, which is Army Group Norths territory, so some must have been issued to soldiers either serving there or were brought there by soldiers serving elsewhere...