Does anyone know what Luftwaffe unit (units) was used to supply Wehrmacht troops besieging Lwow (eg. 1. Gebirgs.Div.)?
I've read some Polish reports describing German "bombers" landings near Sygniowka-Sknilowka area (there was a pre-war airfield Lwow-Sknilow), eg.:
- Sept. 18th, 10.50 hrs, '3 Jn 86' (sic!),
- Sept. 18th, 13.50 hrs, '9 bombers'.
These planes are reported to had been shot at (while on the ground) by Polish light artillery - which "immobilised" 2 of them (yet another report says about 3 bombers damaged as the result of the same event) .
Another document - an intelligence report made during interrogation of Polish civilian - gives information about circa 80 3-engine 'bombers' (apparently Ju-52/3m) standing in three rows south of Grodek Jagiellonski - Lwow road.
Can anyone shed some light on this?
Air supply of units besieging Lwow (Lemberg/Lviv) Sept. '39
Air supply of units besieging Lwow (Lemberg/Lviv) Sept. '39
"Always be ready to speak your mind and a base man will avoid you" W. Blake, Proverbs of Hell
Hi,
according to Morzik/Hümmelchen (Die deutschen Transportflieger im 2. Weltkrieg): I. - IV. /KG zbV 1 made supply-flights in the Poland campaign
(Ju52)
see also: http://www.ww2.dk/air/transport/kgzbv1.htm
according to Buchner (Gebirgsjäger an allen Fronten, p. 17): the 1st Gebirgsdivision was supplied by air transport (Ju52) for three days near Lemberg (14.-16.9.1941). The division stood up to 120 km in front of the German main forces without connection to the rear.
Thomas
according to Morzik/Hümmelchen (Die deutschen Transportflieger im 2. Weltkrieg): I. - IV. /KG zbV 1 made supply-flights in the Poland campaign
(Ju52)
see also: http://www.ww2.dk/air/transport/kgzbv1.htm
according to Buchner (Gebirgsjäger an allen Fronten, p. 17): the 1st Gebirgsdivision was supplied by air transport (Ju52) for three days near Lemberg (14.-16.9.1941). The division stood up to 120 km in front of the German main forces without connection to the rear.
Thomas
Stab, I., II., III. and IV./KG z.b.V. 1
Stab, I., II., III. and IV./KG z.b.V. 2
Stab, I., II. and III./KG z.b.V. 172
All of these - 11 Gruppen of Ju 52s - were very active in supplying German forces advancing across South Poland from 13 September 1939. Between 1 and 12 September they were divided between East Prussia and Silesia, but from 13 September their operations were almost all from bases in Silesia, transporting troops, equipment and supplies forward to airfields as far east as Lvov.
--Lorenz
Stab, I., II., III. and IV./KG z.b.V. 2
Stab, I., II. and III./KG z.b.V. 172
All of these - 11 Gruppen of Ju 52s - were very active in supplying German forces advancing across South Poland from 13 September 1939. Between 1 and 12 September they were divided between East Prussia and Silesia, but from 13 September their operations were almost all from bases in Silesia, transporting troops, equipment and supplies forward to airfields as far east as Lvov.
--Lorenz
Hi Lorenz,
thats a surprise
Morzik/Hümmelchen wrote, that Stab KG zbV 2 and I., II./KG z.b.V. 172 (Flugkommando Berlin and Lufthansa) raised by order of Generalquartiermeister of Luftwaffe on 26.8.1939 (acc. to Tessin)/1.9.1939. These units spent the time of the campaign in Poland in their schools (Radom?, Wesendorf etc.).
Do you have any further informations?
Kind regards
Thomas
thats a surprise
Morzik/Hümmelchen wrote, that Stab KG zbV 2 and I., II./KG z.b.V. 172 (Flugkommando Berlin and Lufthansa) raised by order of Generalquartiermeister of Luftwaffe on 26.8.1939 (acc. to Tessin)/1.9.1939. These units spent the time of the campaign in Poland in their schools (Radom?, Wesendorf etc.).
Do you have any further informations?
Kind regards
Thomas
Hi Thomas,cpa95 wrote:Hi Lorenz,
thats a surprise
Morzik/Hümmelchen wrote, that Stab KG zbV 2 and I., II./KG z.b.V. 172 (Flugkommando Berlin and Lufthansa) raised by order of Generalquartiermeister of Luftwaffe on 26.8.1939 (acc. to Tessin)/1.9.1939. These units spent the time of the campaign in Poland in their schools (Radom?, Wesendorf etc.).
Do you have any further informations?
Kind regards
Thomas
A lot of high-quality research on the transport units has been done by Kössler, Ott, Schlaug and several other researchers since the "old days" when Tessin and Morzik were the only sources.
Stab/KG z.b.V. 2
Formation. (Aug 39)
Ordered formed (new) 26 August 1939 at Insterburg/East Prussia, purportedly to provide airlift support to Fallschirmjäger-Rgt. 2 for the forthcoming attack on Poland. However, the success of the campaign far exceeded German expectations and it was not necessary to use the paratroops as originally intended.
Poland, West, Balkans and Mediterranean. (Sep 39 - Apr 43)
1 Sep 39: Geschwaderstab and Stabsstaffel listed at Sagan-Küpper in Silesia on the opening day of the campaign in Poland and assigned to support one of the Luftgaustäbe z.b.V. operating in the Luftflotte 4 area. A Luftgaustab z.b.V. was a provisional logistics command tasked to move forward behind the advancing front to establish and stock tactical airfields.
28 Sep 39: Stab now at Celle/NE of Hannover following the conclusion of the campaign in Poland.
I./KG z.b.V. 2
Formation and History. (Aug 39 - May 40)
Formed 26 August 1939 at Insterburg/East Prussia to provide airlift support for paratroops in the forthcoming attack on Poland. Instead, the Gruppe was used to transport personnel, fuel, munitions and supplies to forward airfields in South Poland. On 1 September it was based at Sorau/Silesia with 52 Ju 52 transports. On conclusion of the campaign in the latter part of September it returned to Germany where it was gradually disbanded and the aircraft and crews returned to the training schools. Etc., etc.
II./KG z.b.V. 2
Formation and History. (Aug 39 - Nov 39)
Formed 26 August 1939 at Jürgensfelde/East Prussia to provide airlift support for paratroops in the forthcoming attack on Poland. Instead, the Gruppe was used to transport personnel, fuel, munitions and supplies to forward airfields in South Poland. On 1 September it was based at Freiwaldau/Silesia with 53 Ju 52 transports. On conclusion of the campaign in the latter part of September it returned to Germany where it was gradually disbanded and the aircraft and crews returned to the training schools.
III./KG z.b.V. 2
Formation and History. (Aug 39 - Nov 39)
Formed 26 August 1939 at Eichwalde/East Prussia to provide airlift support for paratroops in the forthcoming attack on Poland. Instead, the Gruppe was used to transport personnel, fuel, munitions and supplies to forward airfields in South Poland. On 1 September it was based at Freiwaldau/Silesia with 52 Ju 52 transports. On conclusion of the campaign in the latter part of September it returned to Germany where it was gradually disbanded and the aircraft and crews returned to the training schools.
IV./KG z.b.V. 2
Formation and History. (Aug 39 - Nov 39)
Formed 26 August 1939 (order issued 17 Aug 39?) at Insterburg/East Prussia to provide airlift support for paratroops in the forthcoming attack on Poland. Instead, the Gruppe was used to transport personnel, fuel, munitions and supplies to forward airfields in South Poland. On 1 September it was based at Breslau-Gandau/Silesia with 53 Ju 52 transports. On 26 September 2 Ju 52s crashed in flames after being hit by AA fire over Warsaw and all 7 aboard were killed. With the conclusion of the campaign in the latter part of September, the Gruppe returned to Germany where it was gradually disbanded and the aircraft and crews returned to the training schools. The date of disbandment, or the date the order was issued, has been given as 28 Sep 39.
KG z.b.V. 172
Kampfgeschwader z.b.V. 172
(Unit Codes N3+)
Stab/KG z.b.V. 172
Formation. (Aug 39)
Mobilized 26 August 1939 at Berlin-Tempelhof. KG z.b.V. 172 was the mobilization designation for Flugkommando Berlin, which in peacetime was operated by the civil airline Lufthansa to train Luftwaffe crews for long-distance flying. Its orgins date back to 1933 when its first Kommandeur was Dr. Robert Knauss. In the event of mobilization Flugkommando Berlin was to be reinforced with additional Lufthansa aircraft and crews and built out to three Gruppen of three Staffeln each plus a 10. (Sonder-) Staffel. Even the servicing and maintenance personnel were provided by Lufthansa. The first mobilization was in September 1938 for the occupation of the Sudetenland, at which time it carried the designation Transportgeschwader 172. This was then dropped in favor of Kampfgeschwader z.b.V. 172.
Poland and the Occupation of Denmark and Norway. (Sep 39 - May 40).
Sep 39: Geschwaderstab at Berlin-Tempelhof - its mission during the campaign in Poland was to provide transport support for the Luftgaustäbe z.b.V. (tactical logistics commands) that were engage in Poland, with operations flown primarily from Berlin-Rangsdorf. The Geschwaderstab was demobilized on conclusion of the campaign, probably during the first half of November.
Comment: I can go on with the other Gruppen of KG z.b.V. 172 if you wish, but in the interest of brevity I will cut it off here.
[Sources: K.Kössler/G.Ott-Die großen Dessauer: Junkers Ju 89, Ju 90, Ju 290, Ju 390 – Die Geschichte einer Flugzeugfamilie:15, 125; E.R.Hooton-Phoenix Triumphant: The Rise and Rise of the Luftwaffe:101; K.Ries-Luftwaffen Story 1935-1939; G.Tessin-Tes; W.Green-Warplanes of the Third Reich:408; Aviatik magazine, Heft (issue) No. 1 (pp. 21-22); U.Balke-KG 2/Teil 1:390; BA-MA Freiburg: RL 2 III Meldungen über Flugzeugunfälle…..(Loss Reports – LRs); Personal correspondence with Georg Schlaug, the preeminent German authority on the history of Luftwaffe transport units.
--Lorenz
Thank you very much, gentlemen, for your input.
I found O. de B. of Luftwaffe but couldn't find anything detailed about use of air transport in September 1939.
It seems that would be hard to specify which Gruppen of KG z.b.V took part in described events. And the air supply of units besieging Lwow lasted much longer than 14.-16. September. The information about 80 planes was tagged with date of September 20th.
I found O. de B. of Luftwaffe but couldn't find anything detailed about use of air transport in September 1939.
It seems that would be hard to specify which Gruppen of KG z.b.V took part in described events. And the air supply of units besieging Lwow lasted much longer than 14.-16. September. The information about 80 planes was tagged with date of September 20th.
Hmm, the book - Luftwaffe nad Polską 1939 Cz. II Kampfflieger by Marius Emmerling, Armagedon, Gdansk 2005, ISBN 83-918106-4-X - states that 2 Ju 52 were shot down over Warsaw by AA defense one day before ie. on monday 25th September. Furthermore they were likely to belong to IV/KG z.b.V. 2 - as the author states:Lorenz wrote:III./KG z.b.V. 2
[...]On 26 September 2 Ju 52s crashed in flames after being hit by AA fire over Warsaw and all 7 aboard were killed[...]
Among others 47 Ju 52s of IV/KG z.b.V. 2 took part in air attacks and dropped 102 510 small incendiary bombs.
"Always be ready to speak your mind and a base man will avoid you" W. Blake, Proverbs of Hell
If you are familiar with the Luftwaffe's Gen.Qu.(6.Abt.) Verlustmeldungen bei die fliegende Verbände (daily aircraft loss reports) you know that they are often off by one day. A loss or two on 25 September might have been reported in the Loss Report of 26 September. Marius Emmerling, whom I know, spent years researching and correcting many of these dates so they could be matched up with data from the Polish records. So the loss reported for 26 September most likely is the one you refer to for 25 September.Hmm, the book - Luftwaffe nad Polską 1939 Cz. II Kampfflieger by Marius Emmerling, Armagedon, Gdansk 2005, ISBN 83-918106-4-X - states that 2 Ju 52 were shot down over Warsaw by AA defense one day before ie. on monday 25th September. Furthermore they were likely to belong to IV/KG z.b.V. 2 - as the author states:
Quote:
Among others 47 Ju 52s of IV/KG z.b.V. 2 took part in air attacks and dropped 102 510 small incendiary bombs.
--Lorenz
Re: Air supply of units besieging Lwow (Lemberg/Lviv) Sept. '39
On 16 September in total 60,000 food rations and 180,000 cartridges were delivered to 1. Geb.Div. via air.
But some, possible that large part, of these supplies were captured by Polish forces.
But some, possible that large part, of these supplies were captured by Polish forces.