Has anyone ever seen records of the Luftwaffe Gliderbomb hits/misses
(%s) and the numbers produced?.
Was the HS293b ever used (cable control) ? .I can find details on it but no mention of it being used, in fact most British records seem to confuse the HS293a (500lb) with the Fritz(1000lb).
Glider Bombs
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Derek Sullivan
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Glider Bombs
Regards from Merseyside U.K.
Derek Sullivan
Derek Sullivan
Derek :
Not precisely what you are looking for but does have some nice variants history in it.
German Guided Missiles, Hs 293 and Ruhrstahl SD 1400X Fritz X by William Wolf, published through Merriam Press in Bennington, Vermont, USA / 1999 /
web-site is : http://www.merriam-press.com
some nice little titles .....
E
Not precisely what you are looking for but does have some nice variants history in it.
German Guided Missiles, Hs 293 and Ruhrstahl SD 1400X Fritz X by William Wolf, published through Merriam Press in Bennington, Vermont, USA / 1999 /
web-site is : http://www.merriam-press.com
some nice little titles .....
E
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Robert Hurst
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Hi Derek
The only version of the Hs 293 to see operational service was the Hs293A-1.
The first warship to be sunk by this weapon was the corvette HMS Egret. other warships to succumb to this weapon were the British destroyers Inglefield, Boadicea, Intrepid and Dulverton and the Greek destroyer Vasilissa Olga.
It was also used to attack bridges across the Oder, which the Red Army was approaching. These sorties were undertaken with some success using Dornier Do 217s in April 1945.
The only version of the Hs 293 to see operational service was the Hs293A-1.
The first warship to be sunk by this weapon was the corvette HMS Egret. other warships to succumb to this weapon were the British destroyers Inglefield, Boadicea, Intrepid and Dulverton and the Greek destroyer Vasilissa Olga.
It was also used to attack bridges across the Oder, which the Red Army was approaching. These sorties were undertaken with some success using Dornier Do 217s in April 1945.
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Robert Hurst
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Hi Derek
The only version of the Hs 293 to see operational service was the Hs293A-1. The control of this weapon was by two sets of bobbins, one set attached to the controlling aircraft, and the other set attached to the missiles wingtips.
The first warship to be sunk by this weapon was the corvette HMS Egret. other warships to succumb to this weapon were the British destroyers Inglefield, Boadicea, Intrepid and Dulverton and the Greek destroyer Vasilissa Olga.
It was also used to attack bridges across the Oder, which the Red Army was approaching. These sorties were undertaken with some success using Dornier Do 217s in April 1945.
The only version of the Hs 293 to see operational service was the Hs293A-1. The control of this weapon was by two sets of bobbins, one set attached to the controlling aircraft, and the other set attached to the missiles wingtips.
The first warship to be sunk by this weapon was the corvette HMS Egret. other warships to succumb to this weapon were the British destroyers Inglefield, Boadicea, Intrepid and Dulverton and the Greek destroyer Vasilissa Olga.
It was also used to attack bridges across the Oder, which the Red Army was approaching. These sorties were undertaken with some success using Dornier Do 217s in April 1945.
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Derek Sullivan
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Glider Bombs
Thanks for your replys Erich and Robert,
Sorry for the delay in replying, Erich I have read extracts from that book on the web however I think I will buy a copy just for my records!
Robert your reply was very informative did you compile that list youself?
I have been tracing the life of a RN minesweeper that was hit by a 293 and
got side tracked into Glider Bombs. Records do seem to vary HMS Sparton
was sunk in 1944 but some records say by 293 others by a Fritz to name but one.
I think the BYMS 2072 minesweeper that I researched was the first hit in the Aegean by a glider bomb
From the Enigma files I found the following transmitted at 00.30 on the 12/11/1943,
BOMBERS. (A/C=Aircraft HE=High Explosives HS=Glider Bombs)
62 A/C with 59.8 HE and 12 HS 293, through out the day no sightings of enemy ships in the Aegean and SE of Rhodes continuation of neutralizing attacks on enemy gun positions and AA positions by 39 JU 88, with 57.3 tons of HE. Direct hits observed, 1 JU88 crashed after take-off and was burnt out, crew killed, battle loss over own territory.1JU88 broke off prematurely owing to technical trouble. 1750 to 1803 hrs ,”Attack on enemy shipping formation approaching land from the East and consisting of one fairly large and three fairly small units in 23 deg east 7871, by 4 Do 217s with 8 HS293s. Fairly large unit probably sunk by direct hit, one small unit damaged by (word smudged). Thick plumes of smoke arose.
The mine sweeper had 4 near misses before being hit, 3 killed and a great deal of damage but she did not sink!(all wood construction)
The Royal Navy Destroyer “Rockwood” was hit by the same type of bomb on the same night and although the bomb did not explode it still put her out of commission!.
The 8 293s used did not sink anything! that was the reason for my request on hits. Whilst the ratio of hits looks poor the cost of a glider bomb against the cost of the lives and ship tonnage sunk must have made them very cost effective! The sinking of the HMT Rhona was just one example(over 1100 lives lost)
Sorry for the delay in replying, Erich I have read extracts from that book on the web however I think I will buy a copy just for my records!
Robert your reply was very informative did you compile that list youself?
I have been tracing the life of a RN minesweeper that was hit by a 293 and
got side tracked into Glider Bombs. Records do seem to vary HMS Sparton
was sunk in 1944 but some records say by 293 others by a Fritz to name but one.
I think the BYMS 2072 minesweeper that I researched was the first hit in the Aegean by a glider bomb
From the Enigma files I found the following transmitted at 00.30 on the 12/11/1943,
BOMBERS. (A/C=Aircraft HE=High Explosives HS=Glider Bombs)
62 A/C with 59.8 HE and 12 HS 293, through out the day no sightings of enemy ships in the Aegean and SE of Rhodes continuation of neutralizing attacks on enemy gun positions and AA positions by 39 JU 88, with 57.3 tons of HE. Direct hits observed, 1 JU88 crashed after take-off and was burnt out, crew killed, battle loss over own territory.1JU88 broke off prematurely owing to technical trouble. 1750 to 1803 hrs ,”Attack on enemy shipping formation approaching land from the East and consisting of one fairly large and three fairly small units in 23 deg east 7871, by 4 Do 217s with 8 HS293s. Fairly large unit probably sunk by direct hit, one small unit damaged by (word smudged). Thick plumes of smoke arose.
The mine sweeper had 4 near misses before being hit, 3 killed and a great deal of damage but she did not sink!(all wood construction)
The Royal Navy Destroyer “Rockwood” was hit by the same type of bomb on the same night and although the bomb did not explode it still put her out of commission!.
The 8 293s used did not sink anything! that was the reason for my request on hits. Whilst the ratio of hits looks poor the cost of a glider bomb against the cost of the lives and ship tonnage sunk must have made them very cost effective! The sinking of the HMT Rhona was just one example(over 1100 lives lost)
Regards from Merseyside U.K.
Derek Sullivan
Derek Sullivan
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Derek Sullivan
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Glider Bombs
Thanks Erich for the info! (it will come in very handy) Being mainly on Naval research this (Glider bombs) has really fascinated me.
I think the minesweeper was hit by the fifth squadron of /KG100
based at Athens/Kalamaki.
Any ideas on box 7871, have you ever seen any info on Luftwaffe box numbers? the action was just off Alinda Bay Leros.
The cable controlled Fritz could run out 5 miles of cable (Lots of problems
with that). (It was a survivor off the minesweeper saying that alot of cable was on deck that led me to the 293B)
"Les found the cap head off the bomb carrier lying on the deck , (It was about 15 ins in diameter and shaped like a bowl with about ten inches of cable attached that was approximately two inches in diameter, it had a brass ferrule at the end, and weighed approximately 0.5cwt), having been warned of delayed action bombs he immediately threw it overboard as he was fearful that it might explode!."
On a lighter note the AA action by surface Ships report on USS Pioneer states " NOTES (a) REPEL ATTACK FIRST-then collect data for this report. "
I dont think they would have had much of an option !
I think the minesweeper was hit by the fifth squadron of /KG100
based at Athens/Kalamaki.
Any ideas on box 7871, have you ever seen any info on Luftwaffe box numbers? the action was just off Alinda Bay Leros.
The cable controlled Fritz could run out 5 miles of cable (Lots of problems
with that). (It was a survivor off the minesweeper saying that alot of cable was on deck that led me to the 293B)
"Les found the cap head off the bomb carrier lying on the deck , (It was about 15 ins in diameter and shaped like a bowl with about ten inches of cable attached that was approximately two inches in diameter, it had a brass ferrule at the end, and weighed approximately 0.5cwt), having been warned of delayed action bombs he immediately threw it overboard as he was fearful that it might explode!."
On a lighter note the AA action by surface Ships report on USS Pioneer states " NOTES (a) REPEL ATTACK FIRST-then collect data for this report. "
I dont think they would have had much of an option !
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Armeecommander
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The glider bombs
did the bombs not also sink a american transport in the war in the med?
glider bombs
Hi.
Fritz X FX1400 glider bombs'major successes were hits on Italian battleships Roma and Italia (ex-Littorio), as well as on British veteran battleship Warspite and on cruiser Savannah (in Salerno Bay). Roma blew up and sank; the other ships mentioned were all badly damaged. Warspite was hit in September 1943 and had to be repaired for several months. The next operation she took part was Overlord - D-Day.
In addition to targets mentioned above, Hs 293A missiles (launched by Do 217s) were also used unccessfully against Avranches bridges which were being used by Patton's Third Army in Northern France in August 1944. This was the first time glider bombs were used against land targets.
Fritz X FX1400 glider bombs'major successes were hits on Italian battleships Roma and Italia (ex-Littorio), as well as on British veteran battleship Warspite and on cruiser Savannah (in Salerno Bay). Roma blew up and sank; the other ships mentioned were all badly damaged. Warspite was hit in September 1943 and had to be repaired for several months. The next operation she took part was Overlord - D-Day.
In addition to targets mentioned above, Hs 293A missiles (launched by Do 217s) were also used unccessfully against Avranches bridges which were being used by Patton's Third Army in Northern France in August 1944. This was the first time glider bombs were used against land targets.
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Derek Sullivan
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Hi Sam
The Italian records on the Roma state that it was hit by a
SD1400"FritzX" from a Dornier217 and states WIRE DIRECTED.
Some of the first 1400s were and then cable was later abandoned
(the Roma had 1254 dead) The problems arose with the Fritzs due to the fact that the delivery planes became very vunerable over the target area due to the low speed required.
Fritzs being made to penatrate then explode as against the HS293 being made to explode on contact!
Hello Armeecommander
I think that the transport you are refering to will be the
HMT Rhona (named after a Punjabi village) a British B@I line ship that was carrying 2000 American troops, British records state that the convoy was attacked by approx 30 aircraft and drove them off, later one plane returned and she was then hit by a HS 293 on the port side (due to the controller on the plane being on the starboard side and attacks being made from the rear meant that nearly all hits came on the targets port side)
of 2195 persons on board 1170 perished!
The Italian records on the Roma state that it was hit by a
SD1400"FritzX" from a Dornier217 and states WIRE DIRECTED.
Some of the first 1400s were and then cable was later abandoned
(the Roma had 1254 dead) The problems arose with the Fritzs due to the fact that the delivery planes became very vunerable over the target area due to the low speed required.
Fritzs being made to penatrate then explode as against the HS293 being made to explode on contact!
Hello Armeecommander
I think that the transport you are refering to will be the
HMT Rhona (named after a Punjabi village) a British B@I line ship that was carrying 2000 American troops, British records state that the convoy was attacked by approx 30 aircraft and drove them off, later one plane returned and she was then hit by a HS 293 on the port side (due to the controller on the plane being on the starboard side and attacks being made from the rear meant that nearly all hits came on the targets port side)
of 2195 persons on board 1170 perished!
Not wire guided?
I have an article by Alfred Price called 'Guided Missile Genesis' and although old - I cut it out of an issue of the magazine 'Flying Review' which has been out of production for many years - I believe that he is accurate. Briefly he says that the Fritz X or PC 1400 FX was properly designated the Kramer X-1 after its designer Dr. Max Kramer and was a 1400kg armour-piercing bomb 'directed by radio signals from the launching aircraft'. Development started in 1939 and it was ready for testing in Spring 1942 (it doesn't look as if it was given very high priority!). It was found that it could not be effectively guided if dropped at an altitude of under 5000m, so normal release altitude was 6000m, and after release the 'parent' aircraft had to throttle back and climb in order to reduce speed so that the bomb (which had a flare in the tail-section) could be observed in the last minutes of its fall. Apparently this helped to protect the aircaft against A.A. fire which would then over-predict the speed of the aircraft and under-predict its height. There were five sub-types planned of which one had swept-back wings and fins to fall at almost supersonic speed, and two were larger; only the first, the X-1 itself, was used in action.
The Hs293 used the same guidance system as the X-1, and although a second version was intended to be wire-guided (and a further version to be guided through a television link!) Price states that only the first version was used in combat. However there is no mention in his article of any Luftwaffe unit using either weapon in the Aegean, only in the Mediterranean, the Bay of Biscay, Normandy (only for a few days, at night and without any success and heavy losses) and finally against the Oder bridges.
Once the Allies realised that the bombs were radio-guided they developed the CXGE jamming system which upset the Kehl guidance link. This, together with fighter cover over the Anzio and Normandy beachheads, explains the lack of success of the bombers compared to their first attacks at Salerno and against the Italian fleet.
The Hs293 used the same guidance system as the X-1, and although a second version was intended to be wire-guided (and a further version to be guided through a television link!) Price states that only the first version was used in combat. However there is no mention in his article of any Luftwaffe unit using either weapon in the Aegean, only in the Mediterranean, the Bay of Biscay, Normandy (only for a few days, at night and without any success and heavy losses) and finally against the Oder bridges.
Once the Allies realised that the bombs were radio-guided they developed the CXGE jamming system which upset the Kehl guidance link. This, together with fighter cover over the Anzio and Normandy beachheads, explains the lack of success of the bombers compared to their first attacks at Salerno and against the Italian fleet.