Commanders of 3rd Mountain Division 1938-45?

Individual German officers, soldiers and award holders.

Moderator: Commissar D, the Evil

Commanders of 3rd Mountain Division 1938-45?

Postby sid guttridge » Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:25 am

I am looking into the commanders of Austrian-raised divisions.

Can anyone give me the names of the commanders of the Austrian-raised 3rd Mountain Division over 1938-1945?

Many thanks,

Sid.
sid guttridge
on "time out"
 
Posts: 8055
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 4:54 am

Postby KlemenL » Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:19 am

* Generaloberst Eduard Dietl, (1 May 1938 - 14 June 1940) GER

* General der Gebirgstruppen Julius Ringel, (14 June 1940 - 23 October 1940) AUT

* General der Gebirgstruppen Hans Kreysing, (23 October 1940 - 10 August 1943) GER

* Generalleutnant Egbert Picker, (10 August 1943 - 26 August 1943) GER

* General der Infanterie Siegfried Rasp, (26 August 1943 - 10 September 1943) GER

* Generalleutnant Egbert Picker, (10 September 1943 - 29 September 1943) GER

* Generalleutnant August Wittmann, (29 September 1943 - 3 July 1944) GER

* Generalleutnant Paul Klatt, (3 July 1944 - 8 May 1945) GER

Out of eight wartime commanders of the 3. Gebirgs-Division one was Austrian and seven German (mostly Bavarians - Dietl, Kreysing, Picker, Wittmann and Rasp). Generalleutnant Paul Klatt was from Silesia.
US PGA Commentator - "One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that, before each tee shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them .... Oh my god!!!!! What have I just said?!!!"
User avatar
KlemenL
Supporter
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:39 am

Postby sid guttridge » Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:59 am

Hi KlemenL,

Many thanks.

This makes Ringel the first and only Austrian I have so far found who was appointed to command an Austrian-raised division after the outbreak of war. Even including him, I have yet to find an Austrian appointed to command an Austrian-raised division on active operations or any Austrian appointed to command an Austrian-raised division after 23 October 1940. Including your list I have now checked 49 commanders of Austrian-raised divisions and Ringel is so far the only Austrian amongst them!

Cheers,

Sid.
sid guttridge
on "time out"
 
Posts: 8055
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 4:54 am

Postby KlemenL » Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:39 am

Including your list I have now checked 49 commanders of Austrian-raised divisions and Ringel is so far the only Austrian amongst them!


General der Panzertruppe Dr. jur. Alfred Ritter von Hubicki (AUT) was in command of the 4. Leichte-Division (1 September 1939 - 3 January 1940). The division was renamed into the 9. Panzer-Division in January 1940 with Von Hubicki still in command (3 January 1940 - 15 April 1942). As far as I know the 4. Leichte-Division (respectively 9. Panzer-Division) was an Austrian division, recruited from the Wehrkreis XVII (Wien).

To continue ...

The Commanding Officer of the 45. (Austrian) Infanterie-Division (Linz) during 1 September 1939 - 1 October 1940 was General der Infanterie Friedrich Materna (AUT).

General der Gebirgstruppen Valentin Feurstein (AUT) was in command of the 2. Gebirgs-Division (Innsbruck) from 1 September 1939 - 4 March 1941. General Feuerstein was command of the 3rd Austrian Division of the Austrian Bundesheer in March 1938.

Out of five (Austrian) divisions, which were raised at the outbreak of war in September 1939 - 44th, 45th, 4th Leichte, 2nd Gebirgs and 3rd Gebirgs Division - at least three were commanded by Austrian generals (Materna, Fuerstein and Von Hubicki). The other two (3rd Gebirgs and 44th Infantry Division) were commanded by German generals (Eduard Dietl and Albrecht Schubert).

It seems Sid you are not looking well. :wink:
US PGA Commentator - "One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that, before each tee shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them .... Oh my god!!!!! What have I just said?!!!"
User avatar
KlemenL
Supporter
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:39 am

Postby sid guttridge » Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:44 am

Hi KlemenL,

Nope. I have previously found all those three and on the other current Austrian thread you will find that I mention three Austrian-born divisional commanders (although not by name) appointed to command Austrian-raised divisions immediately after the Anschluss in 1938 but before the outbreak of war.

Immediately after the Anschluss in 1938-39, the Germans and Austrians shared command of Austrian-raised divisions. Of the six active Austrian divisions, three had Austrian commanders with German 2i/cs and three had German COs with Austrian 2i/cs.

However, with the single exception of Ringel, none of them seem to have received an Austrian commander AFTER the outbreak of war. The same is true of the one Austrian reserve division raised at the outbreak of war. I have not yet checked Austrian divisions later than Welle 4. I know Feuerstein later had an Austrian-raised divisional command, but not of a front line formation. It is also notable that even Ringel did not command his division during active campaigning.

This is still work in progress, but at the moment it looks as though a deliberate pre-war policy of sharing the command of Austrian-raised active divisions equally between Germans and Austrians was abandoned in the first year of the war and I have not yet found any Austrian except Ringel appointed to command an Austrian-raised division during the war.

It looks as though the original 50:50 policy was adopted to mollify the Austrian officer corps during peacetime, but that as a precautionary measure Austrians may not have been appointed to command Austrian-raised divisions for most of the war.

Giving Austrians command of Alt Reich divisions or corps presented minimal threat because they were surrounded by Germans, but it may be that it was felt that it was running an unnecessary risk to allow Austrians to make up both the manpower and leadership of divisions at the front.

It may be that further research will modify this picture, but at the moment the facts on the first seven Austrian divisions raised seem to indicate that Austrians were significantly under represented amongst divisional commanders appointed after the outbreak of war and were completely absent when these divisions served on an active battle front.

Cheers,

Sid.
sid guttridge
on "time out"
 
Posts: 8055
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 4:54 am

Postby KlemenL » Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:41 pm

However, with the single exception of Ringel, none of them seem to have received an Austrian commander AFTER the outbreak of war. The same is true of the one Austrian reserve division raised at the outbreak of war.


This is of course not entirely true. The famous 44. Reichs-Grenadier-Division Hoch und Deutschmeister from Vienna was commanded by Generalleutnant Dr. Friedrich Franek from 1st January 1944 to 1st May 1944, when this division was heavily engaged at Monte Cassino (Italy). Friedrich Franek from Vienna was a World War I hero from the Isonzo Front and one of two Austrian officers who was awarded both the Knights' Cross of the Order of Maria Theresa and the Knights' Cross of the Iron Cross. More about him you can read at the below link:

URL: http://www.austro-hungarian-army.co.uk/biog/franek.htm

Of the six active Austrian divisions, three had Austrian commanders with German 2i/cs and three had German COs with Austrian 2i/cs.


Nothing new or unusual for professional officers of that time, if you ask me. Even in the old times of the Habsburg monarchy many of the regular officers were sent far away from their home garrison.

It is also notable that even Ringel did not command his division during active campaigning.


Tough luck for him I would say. But on the other hand the 3rd Gebirgs-Division from Carinthia and Styria has seen plenty of action in Norway. I am just reading the extensive memoires of Oberleutnant HANS ROHR (RK) and from what I can read most of the battalion and regimental commanders were in fact Austrians. I couldn't find any complaints about Dietl for being German. Most of these "German" generals were Bavarians anyway and Austrians and Bavarians often have many things in common.

Giving Austrians command of Alt Reich divisions or corps presented minimal threat because they were surrounded by Germans, but it may be that it was felt that it was running an unnecessary risk to allow Austrians to make up both the manpower and leadership of divisions at the front.


You know Sid with the war years the number of Austrians gradually reduced in these so-called Austrian Wehrmacht divisions. I don't know though what was the situation in IR. 45, PD. 9 or ID. 44 "Hoch und Deutschmeister", but I do know for sure that from 1941 onwards many of the replacements in both Austrian Gebirgs Divisions (2nd and 3rd) were in fact Tyroleans from South-Tyrol (Italy), Slovenes from Oberkrain & Untersteiermark, French from Alsace and Lorraine, Sudeten Germans from Sudetenland, Poles and Germans from Silesia and of course Reichsdeutsche from Bavaria. The Austrian element was shrinking, so that by the end of the war there were probably more non-Austrians (Germans, Czechs, Sudeten Germans, Slovenes, Poles, Tyroleans et cetera) than Austrians in these two divisions. The divisions were Austrian only by name. Same was also happening with other divisions in the German armed forces, I think.
US PGA Commentator - "One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that, before each tee shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them .... Oh my god!!!!! What have I just said?!!!"
User avatar
KlemenL
Supporter
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:39 am

Postby Jason Pipes » Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:49 pm

Sid, what do you mean by "It is also notable that even Ringel did not command his division during active campaigning"?
User avatar
Jason Pipes
Admin
 
Posts: 1818
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: CA & WI

Postby KlemenL » Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:21 pm

Sid, what do you mean by "It is also notable that even Ringel did not command his division during active campaigning"?


I think what Sid means is that during July and October 1940, when Ringer was in command the 3rd Gebirgs-Division did not see any action, what is correct. The division remained in Northern Norway throughout the summer, autumn and winter 1940 and only in early 1941 started to re-group at Kirkenes, Neide and Tarnet for the invasion of USSR.

BTW: Jason, did you get my mail with photos?
US PGA Commentator - "One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that, before each tee shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them .... Oh my god!!!!! What have I just said?!!!"
User avatar
KlemenL
Supporter
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:39 am

Postby Jason Pipes » Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:28 pm

Ringel commanded the 5.Gebirgs-Division during it's invasion of Greece and later Crete, which most certainly was active service. He also commanded the Division during the fighting for Leningrad and moved with it to Italy for that campaign as well. He was awaded his Knigts Cross in June of 1941 for the actions of his division in the campaigns in Greece and on Crete. He most certainly saw active service!

I did get the pics, btw, I will email you offline shortly. Thanks for sending them my way! Very helpful!
User avatar
Jason Pipes
Admin
 
Posts: 1818
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: CA & WI

Postby KlemenL » Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:34 pm

He most certainly saw active service!


Yes, he most certainly did, but I think that Sid is looking here for an Austrian general at the head of an Austrian division in combat. Am I right, Sid? The 5th Gebirg-Division was a German (Bavarian) outfit and not Austrian mountain division. General Ringel, while commander of the 3rd (Austrian) Gebirgs-Division did not eyewitness any action with this (Austrian) division and in such context you should understand Sid's previous statement. But as you said he sure saw plenty of action with the 5th (German) Gebirgs-Division in Greece and on Crete.

I did get the pics, btw, I will email you offline shortly. Thanks for sending them my way! Very helpful!


Ok. This is all what I wanted to know,. Some people recently complained that they didn't get my messages, so I thought that Hotmail is again fooling around....
Last edited by KlemenL on Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
US PGA Commentator - "One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that, before each tee shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them .... Oh my god!!!!! What have I just said?!!!"
User avatar
KlemenL
Supporter
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:39 am

Postby Jason Pipes » Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:36 pm

Ahhhhhhh! I see... forgive me for that oversight guys. Didn't realize the connection between Austrian commander *AND* Austrian raised unit.
User avatar
Jason Pipes
Admin
 
Posts: 1818
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: CA & WI

Postby Doktor Krollspell » Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:30 am

Hello Gentlemen!

As always, an enjoyable and interesting thread. Please allow me to ask a question with som relevance...
Was Generaloberst Dr. Lothar Rendulic, CO of the 14 ID, 52 ID, XXXV Army Corps and the 20. Mountain Army during the War, the most successful/famous Heer Officer of Austrian origin? He was also awarded with the Swords to the Knight's Cross.
Or are there any other famous high-ranking Austrian Heer Generals, besides Julius Ringel?


Regards,

Krollspell
"Wie es eigentlich gewesen ist"
Leopold von Ranke (1795-1886)
User avatar
Doktor Krollspell
Patron
 
Posts: 2472
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:57 am
Location: Sweden, the European Union

Postby Schimmelgraf II » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:45 am

Yes, a great topic. There were quite a number of great generals in the service of the Third Reich and it's really interest how only few of them ever managed to lead their home divisions. I wonder if the same applied to the regimental level and to the local Wehrkeise.

If I had to pick a favorite Austrian general I would certainly go with another Generaloberst Erhard Raus, among others the commander of 1st , 3rd and 4th Panzer Armies. Not to mention the legacy he left with his innovative tactics in offense and defense.

Here's the whole list of Austrian generals, courtesy of Herr Stauffenberg II from Axis History Forum [URL: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=33906 ]

Generalfeldmarschall (xxxxx)
Böhm-Ermolli Freiherr von Eduard, GFM

Generaloberste (xxxx)
Löhr Alexander, Gen. Obst.
Raus Erhard, Gen. Obst.
Rendulic Dr. Lothar, Gen. Obst.

Generale (xxx)
Angelis de Maximilian, Gen. d. Art.
Beyer Eugen, Gen. d. Inf.
Böhme Franz, Gen. d. Geb. Tr.
Brantner Theodor, Gen. d. Kav.
Eglseer Karl, Gen. d. Geb. Tr.
Eimannsberger Ritter von Ludwig, Gen. d. Art.
Feurstein Valentin, Gen. d. Geb. Tr.
Glaise von Horstenau Edmund, Gen. d. Inf.
Hubicki Dr. Ritter von Alfred, Gen. d. Pz. Tr.
Materna Friedrich, Gen. d. Inf.
Nagy von Emmerich, Gen. d. Inf.
Ringel Julius, Gen. d. Geb. Tr.
Ruggera Camillo, Gen. d. FLAK-Artillerie
Waber Bernhard, Gen. d. Fl.
Wiktorin von Mauritz, Gen. d. Inf.

Generale (xxx) - not General Staff qualified
Eibl Karl, Gen. d. Inf. (p)
Felzmann Maximilian, Gen. d. Art.
Fröhlich Stefan, Gen. d. Fl.
Martinek Robert, Gen. d. Art.

Generalleutnante (xx)
Bornemann Karl, Gen. Lt.
Brauner von Haydringen Josef, Gen. Lt.
Eberle Rene, Gen. Lt.
Franek Dr. (von) Friedrich, Gen. Lt.
Hammer Ing. Ernst, Gen. Lt.
Haselmayr von Fernstein Theodor, Gen. Lt.
Hinghofer Dr. Walter, Gen. Lt.
Hofmann Erich, Gen. Lt.
Keil Rudolf, Gen. Lt.
Klepp Dr. Ernst, Gen. Lt.
Krischer von Wehregg Friedrich, Gen. Lt.
Kubena Ing. Johann, Gen. Lt.
Markgraf Emil, Gen. Lt.
Meißner Robert, Gen. Lt.
Mickl Johann, Gen. Lt.
Muhr Eduard, Gen. Lt.
Ortner Bruno, Gen. Lt.
Schönherr von Schönleiten Otto, Gen. Lt.
Sinzinger Adolf, Gen. Lt.
Stümpfl Heinrich, Gen. Lt.
Tarbuk von Sensenhorst Karl, Gen. Lt.
Wittas Ritter von Paul, Gen. Lt.
Zaiser Franz, char. Gen. Lt.
Zellner Emil, Gen. Lt.

Generalleutnante (xx) - not General Staff qualified
Adolph-Auffenberg-Komarow Gustav, Gen. Lt.
Aldrian Eduard, Gen. Lt.
Brunner Josef, Gen. Lt.
Busich Rudolf, Gen. Lt.
Feichtmeier Josef, Gen. Lt.
Höberth v. Schwarztal Eugen, Gen. Lt.
Kern Dr. Emil, Gen. Lt.
Kliszcz Ing. Otto, Gen. Lt.
Mikulicz Adalbert, Gen. Lt.
Moyses Karl, Gen. Lt.
Nake Albin, Gen. Lt.
Pichler Ferdinand, Gen. Lt.
Riebesam Ludwig, Gen. Lt.
Rossi Franz, Gen. Lt.
Schäfer Hugo, Gen. Lt.
Thym Heinrich, Gen. Lt.
Wolfsberger Franz, Gen. Lt.

Generalmajore (x)
Basler Moritz, Gen. Maj.
Brantner Karl, char. Gen. Maj.
Glasner Johann, Gen. Maj.
Klein Karl, Gen. Maj.
Koske Dr. Karl, Gen. Maj.
Kubitza Ing. Oskar, Gen. Maj. (p)
Lahousen von Vivremont Erwin, Gen. Maj.
Longin Anton, Gen. Maj.
Moro Ing. Friedrich, Gen. Maj.
Pauer von Arlau Ernst, Gen. Maj.
Pitreich Ritter von August, Gen. Maj. (Keilig: wrong DOB, correct: 1881)
Pohl Ing. Anton, Gen. Maj.
Punzert Josef, Gen. Maj.
Rudolf Franz, Gen. Maj.
Schmidt von Adalbert, Gen. Maj.
Schöbel Otto, Gen. Maj.
Sohn Roman, Gen. Maj.
Strahammer Martin, Gen. Maj.
Uhl Ernst, Gen. Maj.
Vodepp Felix, Gen. Maj.
Wessely von Marian, Gen. Maj.
Windisch (von) Alois, Gen. Maj.

Generalmajore und Konteradmirale (x) - not General Staff qualified
Adametz Johann, Gen. Maj.
Bacher Hermann, Gen. Maj.
Barton Gottfried, Gen. Maj.
Baumgartner Richard, Gen. Maj.
Coretti Julius, Gen. Maj.
Dedek Emil, Gen. Maj.
Dietinger Ing. Robert, Gen. Maj.
Dini Alexander, Gen. Maj.
Ebner Karl, Gen. Maj.
Fox Wilhelm, Gen. Maj.
Fucik Karl, Gen. Maj.
Gebauer Artur, Gen. Maj.
Geiger Rudolf, Gen. Maj.
Gerber von Zabernberg Alexander, Gen. Maj.
Gerloch Bruno, Gen. Maj.
Gerstmann Josef, Gen. Maj.
Grachegg Gustav, Gen. Maj.
Hotzy Otto, Gen. Maj.
Hyden Alfred, Gen. Maj.
Jackwerth Karl, Gen. Maj.
Janowski Hermann, Gen. Maj.
Janusz Johann, Gen. Maj.
Jenny von Wilhelm, Gen. Maj.
Jesser von Kurt, Gen. Maj.
Kammel Friedrich, Gen. Maj.
Kranjak Wilhelm, Gen. Maj.
Kratzer Franz, Gen. Maj.
Kräutler Matthias, Gen. Maj.
Krüpl Othmar, Gen. Maj.
Krziwanek von Johann, Gen. Maj.
Kuderna Julius, Gen. Maj.
Kurz Ritter von Karl, Gen. Maj.
Kuzmany Alfred, Gen. Maj.
Lechner Heinrich, Gen. Maj.
Leeb Leopold, Gen. Maj.
Löderer von Karl, Gen. Maj.
Lontschar Adalbert, Gen. Maj.
Luschnig Viktor, Gen. Maj.
Luth zu der Rudolf, Gen. Maj.
Magoy Josef, Gen. Maj.
Manussi von Montesole Hans, Gen. Maj.
Marcinkiewicz August, Gen. Maj.
Mayer Anton, Gen. Maj.
Meissner Dipl. Ing. Felix, Gen. Maj.
Meixner Dr. Paul, KAdm.
Morawetz Rudolf, Gen. Maj.
Müller-Rienzburg von Wilhelm, char. Gen. Maj.
Ortner-Weigand Rudolf, Gen. Maj.
Patzak Karl, Gen. Maj.
Plammer Adolf, Gen. Maj.
Polten August, Gen. Maj.
Poten von Ernst, Gen. Maj.
Prachensky August, Gen. Maj.
Pühringer Dr. Rudolf, Gen. Maj.
Pultar Josef, Gen. Maj.
Pummerer Leo, Gen. Maj.
Raab Matthias, Gen. Maj.
Rieger Ing., Gen. Maj.
Riva Erich, Gen. Maj.
Rügamer Ferdinand, Gen. Maj.
Schefold Hugo, Gen. Maj.
Schmidt Aurel, Gen. Maj.
Schmidt v. Luisingen August, Gen. Maj.
Schörgi Hugo, Gen. Maj.
Strecker Wilhelm, Gen. Maj.
Suschnig Gustav, Gen. Maj.
Tarbuk von Johann, Gen. Maj.
Theiß Rudolf, Gen. Maj.
Till Alfons, char. Gen. Maj.
Ubl Bruno, Gen. Maj.
Unger Anton, Gen. Maj.
Vogel Walter, Gen. Maj.
Vichytil Josef, Gen. Maj.
Walland Eugen, Gen. Maj.
Weiß Wilhelm, Gen. Maj.
Zäpffel Alexander, Gen. Maj.
Zednicek Franz, Gen. Maj.
Zuleger Hermann, Gen. Maj.
Schimmelgraf II
New Member
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:32 am

Postby Doktor Krollspell » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:56 am

Hello Schimmelgraf II (and Stauffenberg II from AHF)!

Thank you very much for the listing of General officers of Austrian origin. I reckognize quite a few names but many are new acquaintances for me. I will definitely look most of the up!


Regards,

Krollspell
"Wie es eigentlich gewesen ist"
Leopold von Ranke (1795-1886)
User avatar
Doktor Krollspell
Patron
 
Posts: 2472
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:57 am
Location: Sweden, the European Union

Postby Stauffenberg » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:17 am

Hi everybody!

* Generaloberst Eduard Dietl, (1 May 1938 - 14 June 1940) GER


Althought it doesn´t change the results of the research the 1st Cdr. of the division IMHO was the Bavarian Generalmajor

August Nißl (04.01.1890-22.04.1938),

who died on 22.04.1938.

Regards!
Stauffenberg
Supporter
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 7:24 am
Location: Austria

Next

Return to Commanders, Personalities & Award Holders

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests