Hans Rudel's air to air kills

German Luftwaffe 1935-1945.
corderex
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Post by corderex »

Hello Doktor.

My sources -so to speak- come from our fellow forum member Panzerschiff, when he says that
at ist one of them (1 il-2) was shot down using the 37 mm flak 18 while flying the Ju-87G
Most probably, I overreacted, but my point is that when a pilot claims having shot down (as opposed to destroyed in the ground) an airplane using the Ju-87 37mm guns, he has gone a bit too far into believing his own legend. Then again, what do I know? Perhaps it is all true.

regards,
corderex
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Rudel

Post by kanzel »

Still love the story about how difficult a time he had being accepted into his first Stuka squadron in Greece, not even being allowed to go into combat by his C.O. He didn't fit in because he didn't drink any alchohol, instead being strictly a milk drinker.

As they used to say, "Rudel, Rudel, trinkt nur sprudel". which should also help with the pronounciation, it rymes.

As to his kill with the cannon why not? With all the 'practice' he had he knew exactly where every shell was going. As a young kid I spent my summers firing thousands of rounds of .22 at any and everything on our property and after a while you can shoot from any position and just 'know' where the round is going to land. Shooting at things in snow or on water especially helps the learning process over time.
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Doktor Krollspell
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Post by Doktor Krollspell »

Hello again Corderex!

I agree that shooting down an enemy aircraft with a 37mm cannon-equipped Ju 87G seems highly unlikely. Still, as fellow member Kanzel implies, Rudel possessed enormous experience both flying and shooting with the Stuka. Over 2500 combat missions, over 500 knocked out tanks in ground assaults etc. He sure knew how to use both plane and gun!
Then you have the Rudel myth. Some very famous combatants in the Third Reich was, both during the war and also afterwards very self-aware about exploiting their war experiences history/myth. Rudel for sure. Otto Skorzeny was another prime candidate for promoting himself...

Saying all this, I'll can just repeat what I, and several others have stated. I find it highly unlikely, but not impossible that Rudel scored aerial kills with the Stuka. But my two cents are that he did it while piloting the FW 190D...
BTW, I have not read anything by Rudel or, for that matter, not that much about him.


Regards,

Krollspell
"Wie es eigentlich gewesen ist"
Leopold von Ranke (1795-1886)
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Panzerschiff
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Post by Panzerschiff »

corderex wrote:Hello gentlemen,

Rudel did not shot down a single enemy plane during his wartime service. It is amazing how, 60 years after the end of the war, many well-researched people still dance to the music of Germany's wartime propaganda. :?
And what progaganda music are you dancing rigth now....? some soviet one..?

Your statement is absolute crap. YES Rudel shot down several enemy aircraft, Yes it shot down one with the Ju-87G, and others with versions of the FW-190A, F and D. Or maybe you want to modificate the history and declare that the FW-190 cant destroy an enemy aircraft?

Rudel numbers in JUNE 1944.

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Rudel climbing at FW-190F.

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Even he and his gunner were involded in killing the soviet ace Lev Shestakov.

So...corderex...get a little more info before posting as an animal.
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corderex
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Post by corderex »

Panzerschiff wrote:
corderex wrote:Hello gentlemen,

Rudel did not shot down a single enemy plane during his wartime service. It is amazing how, 60 years after the end of the war, many well-researched people still dance to the music of Germany's wartime propaganda. :?
And what progaganda music are you dancing rigth now....? some soviet one..?

Your statement is absolute crap. YES Rudel shot down several enemy aircraft, Yes it shot down one with the Ju-87G, and others with versions of the FW-190A, F and D. Or maybe you want to modificate the history and declare that the FW-190 cant destroy an enemy aircraft?


So...corderex...get a little more info before posting as an animal.
Mira argentinito de la puta mierda, si es que en verdad eres argentino... Metete eso de animal por el culo, seudonazi de mierda y aprende a respetar a la gente.
Last edited by corderex on Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
corderex
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Post by corderex »

acaso te he insultado yo para que vengas con tus huevadas, cabrón????? :evil: :evil:
y para que te cabrees mas, Rudel no se bajó ningun puto avión, simplemente porque yo lo digo.
Como era eso de que ustedes querian meterse en la Antartica chilena despues de conquistar las Malvinas?? Que? No les salió la cosa?

Aprende a respetar a la gente, y la gente te respetará a tí, cachai?
Or maybe you want to modificate the history and declare that the FW-190 cant destroy an enemy aircraft?

Sabes leer no? Donde he dicho que el FW 190 no puede destruir aviones enemigos???
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Post by M.H. »

Och come oooon...don't leave us out...translate!
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Post by Mobius »

I posted a translation of sorts...but on second thought I decided to erase the whole thing.
regards,
mobius
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Panzerschiff
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Post by Panzerschiff »

Rudel no se bajó ningun puto avión, simplemente porque yo lo digo
Sorry, but your large amount of insults does not change the fact that Hans Ulrich Rudel did shoot down several enemy aircraft. Get more information before posting such nonsence like:
"Rudel did not shot down a single enemy plane during his wartime service"
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corderex
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Post by corderex »

Sorry, but your large amount of insults does not change the fact that Hans Ulrich Rudel did shoot down several enemy aircraft.
I hope you realized that insults is what you will get from anyone if you keep saying things like:
Your statement is absolute crap
and
get a little more info before posting as an animal
As already stated in Spanish, and just so M.H. is not left out of the debate, do take that "animal" insult of yours and shove it up your @ss. Next time, do RESPECT whatever anyone here posts, no matter what you think about it.
Finally, have this:
"Rudel did not shot down a single enemy plane during his wartime service"
Are you going to blow up again?
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M.H.
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Post by M.H. »

....and just so M.H. is not left out of the debate...
Thanks! :D
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Post by corderex »

M.H. wrote:
....and just so M.H. is not left out of the debate...
Thanks! :D
oh, don't mention it... :wink:
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Panzerschiff
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crappy

Post by Panzerschiff »

I am sorry if I hurt your feelings but you started with this:

Rudel did not shot down a single enemy plane during his wartime service


What is your proof of that.... what is your justification...?

Off course the Stuka JU-87G wasnt a fighter plane, it was slow, poor rate of climb and the gunner cover a small aerea in the rear. But still is posible to destroy an enemy aircraft ( by the way a Ju-87B was the first plane in achieve an air-to-air kill in the WW2 but off course you dont know nothing about it :wink: )

The Gustav was equipped with the Borkanone 3,7 with tugsten core ammo, the ammo had a weight of 410 grams and an initial speed of 1170 meters per second with a ciclic rate of 160 per minute.

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Although the Ju-87G cannot pursuit any aircraft if someone had the bad luck of fell in the crosshairs of the Revi gunsight ,is very likely that this ammunition ( designed to fight tanks) not only shoot down a IL-2 but chop it to pieces, tore apart, blasted it completely.

That is concerning the Ju-87G , but ...what about the 405 missions wich he flew in Fw-190s, this misions had always contact with the enemy and many times with enemy aircraft. even if the mission of Rudel was attack the vehicles and artillery positions he also managed to engage the russian fighters an attack aircraft and destroy some of them.

Is a logical thing to happen if we consided that he had acomplished more than 2000 missions when he start to flew with the Wurger, and he had accumulate an enormous figthing experience.

But still you say:

Rudel did not shot down a single enemy plane during his wartime service


You say that sitting in your chair , thousands of kilometres away and doing no research whatsoever.....sorry buddy but THIS is crap, real crap, I mean a lot of crap ...you are the Crap Kommodore :D
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corderex
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Re: crappy

Post by corderex »

Panzerschiff wrote:I am sorry if I hurt your feelings but you started with this:

Rudel did not shot down a single enemy plane during his wartime service
And that is your excuse to launch personal attacks on other people, you @sshole?
Panzerschiff wrote:But still you say:

Rudel did not shot down a single enemy plane during his wartime service
Yes, and I'll keep saying that just to piss you off. :wink:

Btw, what's with your awkward attraction to pictures of German pilots?
Panzerschiff wrote:You say that sitting in your chair , thousands of kilometres away and doing no research whatsoever.....sorry buddy but THIS is crap, real crap, I mean a lot of crap ...you are the Crap Kommodore :D
Yes, you little prick, you blew up again, as expected.

By the way, since you like to post images of everything, here is one for you:
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There go a pair of Harried Skyhawks...
Can you also recite to everyone here the technical specifications of the Sea Harrier?
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Rosselsprung
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Post by Rosselsprung »

Well, I still don't get it, did Rudel actually shoot down a plane during the war, whether in JU-87G or FW-190?

Oh Corderex, allow me to compliment your Harrier picture-

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