Feldgrau.net

Andy H wrote:

Gebirgsjaeger wrote:As some of you Gents out there may have read I am trying to specialize on the Battle Of Arnhem.

Well, yesterday while reading Robert J. Kershaw´s excellent book "It never snows in september" I came across what could in my opinion cleary be considered an American war crime. He states that US troops threw woundes German Soldiers from the Nimwegen bridge into the river where most of them obviously drowned.

Does anyone of you have further information on this action or any other war crimes committed (by all sides!) during Market-Garden?

Best regards,
Markus

Hi Markus

Are we talking about the Rail or Road bridge at Nijmegan?

Have read nothing in the Guards Armoured Divisional history or Lord Carringtons (British Foreign Sec 79-82 and later Sec Gen NATO 84-88) autobio (where he won his MC for the capture at Nijmegan) about the above alleged inncident

Regards

Ok, I´ve read through the book again which has taken me some time because of a new job I started in January.

Here´s what Kershaw wrote on the incicent (s):

"The wounded Germans lying on the road bridge [at Nijmegen] had been mutilated in a cruel way [by the Americans]. According to the report of Leutnant Schulz and Leutnant Albrecht all the bodies were covered with various stab wounds on their heads, throats and heart areas. This report was written down and forwarded to the next higher echolon of command." ---- Kershaw´s source: Report by Schwappacher, Page 4

"The Americans did not behave otherwise than we already knew them, threw our [German] prisoners from the bridge into the Waal river and shot the few prisoners [of division "Herrmann Göring"] among the Wehrmacht-Reserve-Personnel." ---- Kershaw´s source: Hauptsturmführer Brandt, letter written to Harmel on February 22, 1955 (Schneider archive)

"On the orders of an American officer brandishing a submachinegun to control the prisoners the P.O.W.s [Germans] were stood before a wall and shot in cold blood. Right at this moment Unterscharführer Kochler and Rottenführer Burgstaller overthrew three of their American guards at the last moment and were able to make it to the lines of the rest of Euling´s battalion. No one at the command post had known of their presence until then. Burgstaller could see that the Americans had shot the Unterscharführer Lindenthaler and Beissmann and another Fallschirmjäger whilst they were already prisoners. It is more than possible that the other six P.O.W.s had been executed as well. More witness reports on this issue and another one taking place in a nearby bunker are available. The lights were still on when they heard the shots.....". ---- Kershaw´s source: Letter to Schneider archive from June 18, 1979.

i dont mean to offend anyone, but how can some body put up an arguement for war crimes when they were fighting for a facist regime that that was directly responsible for the deaths of millions of people, and the accused party were fighting for freedom in europe!!!! i dont get it!!!!

Simple.

A "war crime" is any breach of the Hague or Geneva Conventions.

It doesn't matter a jot WHAT side does it, what their motivations were when fighting, who their enemy was. If the war was conducted under the terms/oversight of the Conventions - they apply to EITHER side.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/lawwar.asp

The crime of murder for example is not excused by the corpse NEEDING or DESERVING to be killed, is it???

villain73 wrote:i dont mean to offend anyone, but how can some body put up an arguement for war crimes when they were fighting for a facist regime that that was directly responsible for the deaths of millions of people, and the accused party were fighting for freedom in europe!!!! i dont get it!!!!

Oh yeah, give us some more black and white painting! Continuing your line of thinking then it would have been ok to murder every US soldier in the 19th century because the US was committing a genocide with the native Amercian Indians? And then of course "My Lai" was the right thing to do because the south Vietnamese society was supporting the Vietcong and their socialist idea on a large scale? And the attack on the twin towers on 9/11 was perfectly ok because the arab world portrays Amercia as an evil imperialist empire? Come on - grow up!!!

Hello Villain and GBJ:
I think GBJ's answer is spot on although a little strident Most of us on this site already are well aware of the crimes of the Nazi regime and do not need to be reminded of them, and most of us are well aware that not all Germans contributed to those crimes, and in fact many Germans risked their lives and the lives of their families to oppose what they considered a criminal regime. This thread concerns war crimes committed during Market-Garden, and there will be no further discussion of guilt, relative guilt, original sin, or any other philosophical good vs. evil debates. Both of you have said your piece and will have to agree to disagree. Best wishes to both of you. Now let's move on to the study of the German military