This one has defeated all my attempts

Richard Hargreaves · Post by **Richard Hargreaves** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:13 pm

to translate it... especially as I have no idea what "gypsy artillery" is!!

Waren wir auch keine Panzerabwehrtruppe - wenn schon Tanks bei der feindlichen Infanterie auftauchen, dann wollten "wir von der Zigeuner-Artillerie" sie gern mit berücksichtigen

I have to say Fritz Fillies Meine Kompanie in Polen is one of the better propaganda accounts of the 1939 campaign; good accounts of life on the road, fighting, impressions of Poland, without too much of the Nazi Herrenmensch/Untermensch rubbish to contend with.

Prosper Vandenbroucke · Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:22 pm

Hello Halder,
Hope this help you

Mörser = Zigeunerartillerie

I found this on the following website:
http://www.unmoralische.de/bundeswehr_light.htm

Regards from Belgium
Prosper

Richard Hargreaves · Post by **Richard Hargreaves** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:30 pm

Thanks. Mortars? I would never have known.

Rudi S. · Post by **Rudi S.** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:18 pm

I had never heard the term 'Zigeunerartillerie'.
The word 'Mörser' translates into 'howitzer' (with a caliber of 210 mm [about 8.3 inches] and larger) caliber.
Best regards,
Rudi S.

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:47 am

Seems that Zigeunerartillerie was a derogatory term for mortars used by 'real' artillery troops.

Also called Westentaschenartillerie - jacket pocket artillery by the same guys.

SvenW · Post by **SvenW** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:58 am

Gypsy artillery because they can change their position much quickier with their mortars than normal artillery, like gypsys change their "homeplace".

Sven.

Richard Hargreaves · Post by **Richard Hargreaves** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:04 am

Thanks guys for all the input. And still I can't translate this wretched sentence!

This has to be one of the harder books I've ever attempted. I think I should just wrap a towel round my head, stick something up my nose and say "whibble". (English board members should get that one!)

Grunt · Post by **Grunt** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:41 am

Rudi S. wrote:I had never heard the term 'Zigeunerartillerie'.
The word 'Mörser' translates into 'howitzer' (with a caliber of 210 mm [about 8.3 inches] and larger) caliber.
Best regards,
Rudi S.

"Mörser" is indeed "Mortar" and "howitzer" would be translated "Haubitze", although calibres below 210mm also would carry this name, for example the 105mm Feldhaubitze.

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:41 am

If I remember rightly, the whibble wheeze won't help you much - you've still got to go over the top

I'll go first with this attempt and then maybe we can piece something better together.

We weren't anti-tank troops either - when tanks showed up with the enemy infantry, then 'we gypsy artillery guys' wanted to take care of them.

I guess he means this in as in 'take care of a problem' or perhaps 'take them out' would fit better. Perhaps the preceding and subsequent sentences might help?

SvenW · Post by **SvenW** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:55 am

Waren wir auch keine Panzerabwehrtruppe - wenn schon Tanks bei der feindlichen Infanterie auftauchen, dann wollten "wir von der Zigeuner-Artillerie" sie gern mit berücksichtigen

- "As we are not the AT unit - if tanks emerge beside enemy troops, we from the gypsy arty will take them into consideration."

Sven.

Richard Hargreaves · Post by **Richard Hargreaves** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:44 am

Thanks for all the input

This is the whole extract

[p.66]

Da brachen links von der polnischen Infanterie sechs polnische Tanks vor. Jawohl, sechs Panzerwagen. Sie suchten sich, von der Seite her überholend, vor die Schützenreihen zu stellen, um diese voranzuführen

[p.67]

"Augenblick, bitte, die Herren Polen!" sagte Unteroffizier Kreienbring
"Entfernung 1,200 - vier Gruppen!" rief ich Kuhlhüser zu
Wir wollten den Polen etwas bieten. Staubwolken folgten den Panzerwagen. Dahinter verschwanden die Schützenreihen. Waren wir auch keine Panzerabwehrtruppe - wenn schon Tanks bei der feindlichen Infanterie auftauchen, dann wollten "wir von der Zigeuner-Artillerie" sie gern mit berücksichtigen
Unsere Granaten lagen, wie sie liegen sollten. Von den Einschlägen und auch von den Tanks wurde so viel Schmuss und Staub drüben bei den Polen hochgeschleudert, dass sich Einzelheiten kaum noch erkennen liessen. Ich zählte nur noch vier Tanks. Wahrscheinlich waren zwei in einer kleinen Geländefalte, links von der polnischen Infanterie, verschwunden. Auf alle Fälle schossen wir unsere Granaten weiter auf den Hang. Die schweren Maschinengewehre des "wirschen Hauptmanns" knarrten ihren langen Feuergarben hinüber. Der Einzelschützen gaben Schuss um Schuss aus ihren Löchern ab. Es war ruhiges und deshalb wohl gut gezieltes deutsches Gewehrfeuer. Die Granatwerfer heulten ihre Granaten hinaus. Beim Polen musste der Teufel los sein
Nach einer Viertelstunde waren keine polnischen Tanks und keine polnischen Schützenreihen mehr da. Ein Melder kam in langen Sprüngen zu mir: "Die Tanks sind weg, es hat vor und zwischen ihnen eingeschlagen, und die polnische Infanterie scheint sich in den Kiefernwald zurückgezogen zu haben. Sie sollen ihn beschiessen!" ...

And here's my attempt at a translation

* [Page 66]

There, to the left of the Polish infantry, six Polish tanks broke through. Yes, six tanks. They looked to deploy in front of the ranks of riflemen, passing them from the side, to lead them from the front.

[p.67]

"A moment, please, those Polish gentlemen!" said unteroffizier Kreienbring
"Range 1,200 [metres] - four groups!" I called to Kuhlhüser.
We wanted to give the Poles something. Clouds of dust followed the tanks. The ranks of infantry vanished behind them. We weren't anti-tank troops either - [but] when tanks showed up with the enemy infantry, then we "mortar men" wanted to take care of them
Our shells fell where they should fall. So much filth and dust was hurled up by the impact of the shells and also by the tanks that details could barely be made out any more. I counted only four tanks left. Two had probably disappeared in a small dip in the land, to the left of the Polish infantry. In any event, we continued to fire our shells at the slope.
The heavy machine-guns of the hauptmann from Wirschen [Saxony] rattled long bursts of fire. Individual riflemen fired round after round from their foxholes. It was calm, and therefore well-aimed, German gunfire. The mortars hurled out their howling rounds. All hell had been let loose among the Poles. After a quarter of an hour there were no longer Polish tanks or Polish infantry there. A messenger came towards me with long strides. "The tanks have gone, hits in front of and in the midst of them, and the Polish infantry seems to have withdrawn into the pine forest. You should shoot at them!"...

GelberMeteor · Post by **GelberMeteor** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:01 am

Hi, just a minor correction, if I may: The "wirsche Hauptmann" has nothing to do with any location. Whilst the word "unwirsch" meaning unfriendly is quite common, the expression "wirsch" I have never come across till now. But it seems to exist in the southern part of Germany und means pretty much the same as "unwirsch": unfriendly, short, exited, furious..
See here:
"Das Wort wirsch gibt es ebenfalls. Es ist aber nicht mit "unwirsch" verwandt! Es leitet sich aus dem Alemannischen "wirr" ab und bedeutet schroff, zornig, wild, aufgeregt."

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:34 am

According to one of my dictionaries unwirsch could be translated as 'stroppy'.

SvenW · Post by **SvenW** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:46 am

Today wirsch and unwirsch is simmiliar, just a local difference. Should be translated as: (adj) disgruntled, cross (Langenscheidt dictionary).

Sven.

Grunt · Post by **Grunt** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:04 am

In this connection maybe "rude" would also be a translation?

Feldgrau.net

This one has defeated all my attempts

This one has defeated all my attempts

Mörser

Re: Mörser