Polish Cavalry charging German Armour

rclayton · Post by **rclayton** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:53 pm

Hi everyone.
Yes I know it really didn't happen but I read a posting on this forum sometime ago that explained the basis for this story.
The posting described what happened, where it happened and precisely when it happened. It was, I believe, initially an attack by the Poles on a German Infantry or Motorised unit?
If anyone can direct me to the original posting, or outline the story again I'd be much obliged.

Best regards,
Ron C.

Christoph Awender · Post by **Christoph Awender** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:09 pm

Hello!

There is a long discussion about this topic at our AHF forum. Basically it is a matter of interpretation.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... sh+cavalry

\Christoph

Pirx · Post by **Pirx** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:47 am

Basis for this stories:
1. German propaganda. They show in "wochenshau" a movie made in october or november 1939 where "Polish" cavalary charge German tanks. "Polish" cavalary was in fact German cavalary unit (soldiers in german helmets, polish army used "french" model"). This film was often used as a documentary, no matter that mounted soldiers where in feldgrau.
2. Encircled elements of cavalary brigade from army "Pomorze" tried break through. Without reconesaince they attack small group of German infantry. Bad luck. In woods behind infantry were German tanks. Poles has no idea about them. However German officers reported cavalary charge against tanks.

Roger Griffiths · Post by **Roger Griffiths** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:44 pm

The film may be propaganda, but the Polish Army had cavalry as did the Russians. The British had a cavalry division for a while and so did the Germans. The German 1st Cavalry Division was converted to 24 Panzer Division but then several cavalry formations were raised and expanded and added to. These were more mounted infantry, ie dragoons in historical parlance, and very useful as far as mobility is concerned.

Tactically, cavalry as battlefield formations have been obsolete since the Napoleonic Wars. Cavalry was only effective whilst infantry were armed with slow reloading muskets. Even then, the use of squares or rectangles largely negated cavalry charges. The cavalry could still prevail by use of a particular tactic. This was for a small number of horsemen to charge the corner of a square and use their weight to brake open the square. Then the rest would pour in. The British 69th Regiment was largely destroyed by this tactic at Quatre Bras. Massed French Cuirassier Divisions were highly effective in many battles but the overall situation was that cavalry were on the way out. How they survived until WWI I don't know. As soon as rapid firing rifles became available (1841 Dreyse needle gun in Prussia) cavalry was finished.

Even now, thought should be given to mounted infantry, it provides a lot of mobility.

Roger

Pirx · Post by **Pirx** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:59 am

Roger Griffiths wrote:Tactically, cavalry as battlefield formations have been obsolete since the Napoleonic Wars. Cavalry was only effective whilst infantry were armed with slow reloading muskets.
Roger

You are right. But in 1930 - 1940 cavalary commanders knew about it, so there was no charge with sabres and lances against tanks and mashine guns (like on german propaganda movies). It was really fast moving units. In eastern europe was not too many major roads, usually dirt paths. Motorised or panzer units were very expensive, and needs a lot of fuel and parts. Poland east from Vistula river was like Russia - woods, or marshes (look at Pripiat river marshes), so Germans planed attack only to Vistula river. Western Poland - with good roads and many gas stations - for Germans, eastern Poland for Russians. During september campaign Germans changed plans and moved their divisions near Bug river. Behind this line were large marshes and woods where cavalary could be really dangerous. Ulans where equiped with the same weapons like infantry, with mortars, machine guns and ant-tank guns. Look at the battle near Mokra sept. 1 - 2 1939, were cavalary brigade destroyed or damaged many tanks or armored cars, then quickly withdraw.

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:45 am

Hi,

according to Max Hastings in his latest tome Armageddon German cavalry (i.e. Russian Cossacks) routed Soviet infantry in Yugoslavia in, I think, 1945. It seems the Russians threw away their guns and ran. So perhaps, in certain (very specific) circumstances, cavalry was still effective after 1815