Gross Deutschland Panz. Div.

[Groscurth]

Are there any Feldgrau links about to storys or discussions about this elite Panzerdivission? Order of battle?

This must allready has been discussed on Feldgrau but I don't find anything.

Thanks.

[Groscurth]

I would be very satisfied with other links too, if the discussion can not be found back or never occur on Feldgrau.

[sid guttridge]

Hi Grosscurth,

A purely technical question: Was the Grossdutschland ever titled as a "panzer" divison?

Cheers,

Sid.

[Christoph Awender]

Did you search here on the forum and google?

At the forum I get 107 matches:
http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/search.php?mode=results

On google over 10800:
http://www.google.at/search?q=Grossdeut ... l=de&meta=

\Christoph

[Groscurth]

[quote="sid guttridge"]Hi Grosscurth,

A purely technical question: Was the Grossdutschland ever titled as a "panzer" divison?

Cheers,

Sid.[/quote]



-->That is indeed what I want to check because this was told on the Michael Witman site that is in the links on Feldgrau.

Thank you Christopher.

[Wolfkin]

Hello Groscurth!

This is something that I have wondered about as well. Check out this link to a similar discussion, this might help:

http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8619

I hope this helps!

Cheers,

Wolfkin

[Roger Griffiths]

The title was always Panzer Grenadier Division, but it was counted as a panzer division from 1943 because it had a panzer regiment. Brandenburg was titled Panzer Grenadier Division although it had the authorized strength of a PD44 (Not that it attained full strength).

Roger

[Groscurth]

Thank's all.

What do you think about the info, especcially the history of the unit like found on? Reliable? Very nice site with cards that are showing the advances and retreats of the unit in each year + the battles in wich it was involved.

Nice story of veteran Guy Sajer to.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/grossdeutschland/


For a wargame, they give a lot of info, more then I could find on a WWII site.

[JeffF.]

I see from the Feldgrau unit history on the panzergrenadier division GD that it was under 4th Rumanian Army in Army Group South Ukraine and that it was 'refreshing' in this period. Is there any information on its strength, particularly its panzers and whether it had the two SPW equipped pzgr battalions (1 per pzgr regiment) and SP arty bn it was authorized? Jentz' Panzertruppen doesn't cover the unit for this period.

I ask because I notice that the tank strength of the Pz Lehr Div and 2nd Pz Div in the west at this time was (repsectiveley) at and nearly at full strength while the 1SS & 12 SS Pz divs were receiving tanks that would bring them up to strength. I just wondered how Grossdeutschland PzGr Division was in comparison at this time. As a favored unit 'refreshing' I'd expect that it was being brought up to strength but hope somebody knows for sure.

By the way what Wehrkreiss did the division recruit from or did it have a special method of recruiting replacements from across the nation (even if that 'normal method had broken down by mid '44 I'd like to to know what it was originally)?

thanks,
Jeff

[Frederick L Clemens]

Nice story of veteran Guy Sajer to.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/grossdeutschland/

The author of the "Guy Sajer" story has recently explained that the book is a work of fiction. There was in fact no "Guy Sajer". See the Books forum thread on the Forgotten Soldier for more info.

[Roger Griffiths]

Yes PGD GD took in men from all over Grossdeutschland.

Panzer State 1Jun44.

Stugs. 42 - 15/2 Establ - Runners/Short Term Repair

III 8 - -/-

IV 93 - 12/1

V 3 - 3/-

VI 45 - 19/1

SPW's/Armd Cars/etc/etc 557 - 60/13

I/PGR 17 SPW's, I/PFuesR detached for equipping with SPW's

II/PzAR GD 4 Bttry 7 Hummel, 5 Bttry 7 Wespe, 6 Bttry 7 Hummel

I(V)/PR GD under command 116PD in West 74/4 Panther

Roger

[JeffF.]

Looks like the division was in good strength in that period. Do you have an estimate of its personnel strength at this time (not including attacments-preferably just of the division with its assigned units)? Would it be accurate to say it was still the largest Heer panzer division at this period (JUN'44)?
thanks,
Jeff

[Roger Griffiths]

Jeff, dear heart!!! Are you reading the numbers properly?

Personnel Strength was Establishment 21,823, Actual 21,575.

Roger

[JeffF.]

Roger, mine alte krieghund, danke!
"Are you reading the numbers properly? " (?!?)[puzzled look on Jeff's face]. Looks like it has no challengers for the title.
thank very much!
What would we do without you!
best regards,
Jeff

[JeffF.]

Doh! (oops that probably doesn't mean anything to a UK guy),
I was NOT reading your figures correctly. Upon careful analysis I found my error! I now realize GD was greatly understrength in armor but nearly up to strength in personnel.

I must get my eye wear updated! it sucks getting old!

thanks! Jeff