Questions about the 22 first German infantry divisions

[Loic]

Hello all,

I need information about some of theses 22 units (from 1. to 22.), raised on October 15th 1935.

I have some problems to know what was the filiation and the cover names for four of them :

- 6. Infanterie Division : [b]what was the regiment used as its nucleus during the process of forming [/b]? The 17. or the 18. Infanterie Regimenter ? [b]Was its cover name "Wehrgauleitung Bielefeld"[/b] just before Infanterieführer VI, between October 1st 1934 and October 15th 1935 ?

- 16. Infanterie Division : what [b]was the regiment used as its nucleus[/b] ? The 18. Infanterie Regiment ?

- 19. Infanterie Division : [b]was its cover name "Wehrgauleitung Hannover"[/b] during the same period, just before Artillerieführer VI ? [b]What was the regiment used as its nucleus [/b]? The 17. Infanterie Regiment ?

- 22. Infanterie Division : it's very hard to understand the formation of this division. I believe it was raised on October 15th 1935, like the other 22, but I don't know whether there were previous structures (Kommandant von Bremen ? [b]But there must be a "Wehrgauleitung"[/b] !). [b]What was the regiment used as its nucleus [/b]? The 16. Infanterie Regiment ? [b]What was exactly its original Wehrkreis [/b](WK VI, West, Münster, or WK X, Nordsee, Hamburg ?) ?

Last question : [b]could someone translate "Wehrgauleitung" and tell me what was their missions [/b]?

Thanks for all !
Best regards from Paris !

Loic

[Jason Pipes]

The 6.Infanterie-Division was initially called Wehrgauleitung Bielefeld, before becoming Infanteriefuhrer VI, then finally 6.Infanterie-Division. The 16.Infanterie-Regiment of the 6.Division of the Reichswehr was used as the basis of it's initial formation. All of this is listed on the unit history page of the 6.Infanterie-Division on this site, which was just updated to correct some faulty info... The above info is correct.

The 16.Infanterie-Division was formed from the basis of the 18.Infanterie-Regiment of the 6.Division of the Reichswehr.

The 19.Infanterie-Division was initially known as Wehrgauleitung Hannover before becoming Artilleriefuhrer VI, then finally 19.Infanterie-Division. The 17.Infanterie-Regiment of the 6.Division of the Reichswehr was used as the basis of it's initial formation.

The 22.Infanterie-Division was formed totally anew in 1935 from the recently formed 16.Infanterie-Regiment of the 6.Infanterie-Division. The entire regiment transfered over directly into the 22nd, but it's I.Abteilung was used to form the I.Abteilung of the divisions new Infanterie-Regiment 65. The holes in both regiments were filled with Landespolizei units newly taken into the Wehrmacht during the expansion process of the army. The divisions last regiment, the 47th, was formed entirely from Landespolizei units.

Wehrgauleitung means roughly army training entrance/acceptance center. Somewhat akin to a recruiting office or center in todays military.

Hope this helps!

[Loic]

Hello Jason !

Thank you for your reply. It answers all I needed.

Concerning the cover names and the signification of Wehrgauleitung, that's ok. But I have a lot of problems with the composition of the 22 first prewar infantry divisions.

I have the following OBs on October 15th 1935 (with 72 regiments - 3 regiments/division, and 24 divisions) :

- 1. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 1, 22 and 43
- 2. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 5, 25 and ??? (later 92)
- 3. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 8, 29 and 50
- 4. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 10, 52 and ??? (later 105)
- 5. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 14, 56 and ??? (later 75)
- 6. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 18, 37 and 58
- 7. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 19, 61 and 62
- 8. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 28, 38 and ??? (later 84)
- 9. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 36, 57 and ??? (later 116)
- 10. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 20, 41 and ??? (later 85)
- 11. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 2, 23 and 44
- 12. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 27, 48 and ??? (later 89)
- 13. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 33, 66 and ??? (later 93)
- 14. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 11, 53 and ??? (later 101)
- 15. Infanterie Division : ??? ??? ??? (later 81, 88 and 106)
- 16. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 60, 64 and ??? (later 79)
- 17. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 21, 55 and ??? (later 95)
- 18. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 30, 51 and 54
- 19. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 59, ??? and ??? (later 73 and 74)
- 20. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 69, ??? and ??? (later 76 and 90)
- 21. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 3, 24 and 45
- 22. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 16, 47 and 65
- 23. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 9, 67 and 68
- 24. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 31, 32 and ??? (later 102)

I lack 20 regiments (4, 6, 7, 12, 13, 15, 17, 19, 26, 34, 35, 39, 40, 42, 46, 49, 63, 70, 71, 72)...

With the following creations of infantry divisions, on April 1936 and later, these attributions were changed (and I have the final divisional compositions, after April 1938). But I'd like to have the October 1935 composition.

Thanks by advance, and thans for the help provided yet !

Loic

[Jason Pipes]

Here are the missing regimental affilitions for 1935:

4.Inf.Reg. - 2.Inf.Div
6.Inf.Reg. - 12.Inf.Div
7.Inf.Reg. - 8.Inf.Div
12.Inf.Reg. - 13.Inf.Div
13.Inf.Reg. - 15.Inf.Div
15.Inf.Reg. - 9.Inf.Div
17.Inf.Reg. - 19.Inf.Div
19.Inf.Reg. - 7.Inf.Div
26.Inf.Reg. - 20.Inf.Div
34.Inf.Reg. - 15.Inf.Div
35.Inf.Reg. - 5.Inf.Div (later 25.Inf.Div)
39.Inf.Reg. - 16.Inf.Div (later 26.Inf.Div)
40.Inf.Reg. - 7.Inf.Div
42.Inf.Reg. - 17.Inf.Div
46.Inf.Reg. - 20.Inf.Div
49.Inf.Reg. - 8.Inf.Div
63.Inf.Reg. - 17.Inf.Div
70.Inf.Reg. - not formed until 1936
71.Inf.Reg. - not formed until 1936
72.Inf.Reg. - not formed until 1937

Hope this helps clear things up.

When you have all this info pulled together would you be so kind as to provide me with copies to assist with my oob research as well? It would mean a lot!

Thanks!

[Loic]

Really great !

Thanks Jason. It is very useful. I could check my lists now

Concerning your last statement "When you have all this info pulled together would you be so kind as to provide me with copies to assist with my oob research as well? It would mean a lot!". There is no problem. Please specify what you're waiting for, I'll see if I could help you with my weak means...

Please contact me off-line ! It would be a real pleasure.

Very best regards

Loic

[Loic]

Hey Jason,

Sorry to disturb you again, but there are still some blanks in my schemes.

Some regiments lack to my charts :

- 4. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 10, 52 and ???
- 7. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 19, 40 and ???
- 10. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 20, 41 and ???
- 14. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 11, 53 and ???
- 15. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 13, 34 and ???
- 17. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 21, 42 and ??? (you got 63 for the last regiment, I found elsewhere 55, who is right ?).
- 19. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 17, 59 and ???
- 24. Infanterie Division : Inf. Rgter 31, 32 and ???

Other question : when the regimental number was officialy postponed in the German regiments designation (when the form "1. Infanterie Regiment" became Infanterie Regiment 1 ?) ?

Thanks !

Loic

[Stauffenberg]

Hi Loic & Jason!

May I join. I never understood the deployment of the 22.-24. Infantry Division.

The Divisions 1-21 were actually raised in 1934 (with cover designations). Fine, that´s clear to me.

But there were 3 more divisions ready in 1935 (22-24) and they must have had a designation and a staff to prepare the deployment. Wilhelm Keitel wrote that he had to leave Berlin for Bremen on Oct. 1st, 1934 to build a new division (the later No. 22), which had to be ready on Oct. 1st, 1935. And he wrote that the Army was enlarged to 24 Divisions in a first step.

So the units (22.-24.) were obviously raised from Oct. 1st, 1934 on, too.

Source:
Keitel, W.: in Mein Leben, Pflichterfüllung bis zum Untergang, published by Maser, W., 2nd Edition, 2000

Regards,
Stauffenberg

[Loic]

Hello !

I think the 23. and 24. Infanterie Divisionen were built with disbanded Landespolizei units. They didn't need a long process to be raised, only a reconversion of other units. So they're not so problematic in my opinion.

But the case of the 22. is very hard to understand. This unit existed before October 15th 1935 as "Kommandant von Bremen", maybe before as "Wehrgauleitung Bremen" (but not sure). It needed a "nucleus regiment" - Inf. Rgt. 16 - and an important process to be formed.
The day when the process of forming this division began is unknown, but it could help us a lot...

Maybe you could specify me when the designation of the German regiments became "Inf. Rgt. #" in place of "#. Inf. Rgt".

Thanks.

Loic

[Stauffenberg]

Let´s take Gen. d. Inf. Kuno v. Both for example:

The Bradley bio states:
Commander of the 6th Infantry-Regiment (01 Feb 1934 - 01 Oct 1934)
Commander of the Infantry-Regiment 'Lübeck' (01 Oct 1934 - 15 Oct 1935)
Commander of the 6th Infantry-Regiment (15 Oct 1935 - 06 Oct 1936)

There you can see the formation process by numbers/designations.

OK, Keitel had to overview the formation of the No. 22 from Oct. 1st, 1934 on. But who was responsible for No. 23 and No. 24. Nobody, due to your point of view?

Regards

[Jason Pipes]

Previously I found no reference to the fact that the 22nd was formed earlier than October 1935. My main reference (Deutsche Verbande und Truppen 1918-1939, by Tessin) clearly states that the 22nd was formed in 1935. But after looking into Formationsgeschichte und Stellenbestzung... by G Wegner I find that he lists the 22.Inf.Div. on 1.10.34 as Kommandant von Bremen! In looking into my copy of Keitel's book I indeed find that he mentions being given the command of the 22nd in 1934. Looks like we must all dig a little deeper! btw, I did look into the divisional history of the 22nd but sadly it doesn't mention anything about its pre-war formation.

[Stauffenberg]

I´m very glad to hear that. Now, the No. 22 seems to be clear to me. But again: No. 23 and No. 24 are bothering. How could they set up a division, the No. 23 around the Regiment No. 9 for example (GFM Busch, the later Cdr.), without preparing anything.

[Loic]

I checked to my sources, and I found 22. Infanterie Division created as "Kommandant von Bremen" on October 1st 1934 too. So, I think the process of forming of this unit began at this time. But I saw "Wehrgauleitung Bremen" nowhere...

Concerning the 23. and 24. Infanterie Divisionen, where is the problem ?Their formation began on October 15th 1935 (officially of course), and they were effective units later. In fact, the 22. Inf. Div. was created on October 1st 1934, and was effective on (randomly) October 15th 1935, and 23. and 24. Inf. Div. were created on October 15th 1935, and were effective later... The time of forming is there, not before.

But this is only a personal theory... Could you explain me in what this is problematical please ?

Concerning the number of the regiments, nobody knows when the designation "#. Infanterie Regiment" (for instance 5. Infanterie Regiment) became officially "Infanterie Regiment # (Infanterie Regiment 5), with the figure postponed after the status of the unit ?

Anyway, thank you guys !

Loic

[Jason Pipes]

I believe the change in regimental numbering came about on October 15th, 1935. That's when they all offically became Infanterie-Regiment X.

I would agree, it appears the 22nd was not initially formed as a Wehrgauleitung, but it did exist pre-1935 as Kommandant von Bremen. Further proof towards it's existance pre-1935 is in the fact that Keitel was it's commander in 1934. Something to keep in mind is that in 1934 it may not have been known as the 22nd, but since it later became the 22nd it may have simply been easier to refer to it as the 22nd during the time even though technically it was Kommandant von Bremen. Keitel in his book knew his command later became the 22nd, so calling it the 22nd as of 1934 may seem like a given when in fact, technically, no 22nd existed until 1935.

Either way, we do know Kommandant von Bremen existed in 1934, and that as of 1935, it was formed into the 22.Infanterie-Division from portions of the already existing Infanterie-Regiment 16 and various Landespolizei units.

As for the 23rd and 24th, they didn't exist at all until 1935 and were formed totally anew on the date of the formation.

[Stauffenberg]

Thank you Loic & Jason.

I believe the change in regimental numbering came about on October 15th, 1935. That when they all offically became Infanterie-Regiment X.

I thought that I already pointed out that by stating:

Let´s take Gen. d. Inf. Kuno v. Both for example:

The Bradley bio states:
Commander of the 6th Infantry-Regiment (01 Feb 1934 - 01 Oct 1934)
Commander of the Infantry-Regiment 'Lübeck' (01 Oct 1934 - 15 Oct 1935)
Commander of the 6th Infantry-Regiment (15 Oct 1935 - 06 Oct 1936)

I think the designations changed on 15.10.1935, too.

Regards

[Loic]

Hey Stauffenberg !

No, you pointed another thing : the change of the regimental designation from a named regiment (Inf. Rgt. Lübeck) to a numbered regiment (6. Inf. Rgt).

But I asked for the change from a numbered regiment (6. Inf. Rgt) to another numbered regiment, but under another form (Inf. Rgt. 6 - the number was postponed behind the regimental status).

I know, it is hard to understand when a French speak English... Sorry

But thank you anyway for the day of change, it is useful.

Loic