German Artillery Sizes

[Freiritter]

What was the size of German field guns? If I'm not mistaken, the Germans had fielded 105mm and maybe 155mm guns.

Cordially,

Freiritter

[Rich]

What was the size of German field guns? If I'm not mistaken, the Germans had fielded 105mm and maybe 155mm guns.

Cordially,

Freiritter

The standard field pieces were 10.5cm light field howitzers (not guns) and 15cm (actully 149mm - a common German practice - I've actually seen descriptions of the "lousy" Italian 149mm howitzer by people who don't realize it is identical to the 15cm sFH ) heavy field howitzers. The typical early war "corps" field gun was a 10cm (105mm) piece - it later became a common piece in one battery of the Panzer Artillerie Regiment and in "mixed" corps battalions along with 15cm batteries. There was also a much less common heavy field gun in 15cm, which was later replaced by the excellent 17cm KiMrsL (gun in a howitzer carriage). The standard heavy field howitzer was a 21 cm piece.

[DasReichX]

What is the difference between a howitzer, gun, cannon, etc?!

[Rich]

What is the difference between a howitzer, gun, cannon, etc?!

Well to some extent it depends on what national tradition you follow. For instance, in many European nations such as Germany a "mortar" (moerser) was what we Yanks would call a heavy howitzer.

A cannon is actually a very early term describing the type of gun tube and can be synonymous with the artillery tube or barrel.

A howitzer is an artillery cannon capable of firing with a high degree of elevation, so that the fall of shot can be directed over and behind obstacles. To facilitate this the chamber pressures are usually designed to be lower, so the muzzle velocity is generally lower. Typically the length of the barrel is fairly short in relation to the caliber (bore diameter) of the piece.

A gun is an artillery cannon designed to fire with a flatter trajectory from less elevation and so will generally have greater range. Chamber pressures are designed to be higher than in a comparable howitzer, so as to generate greater muzzle velocity. Typically the length of the barrel is fairly long in relation to the caliber of the piece.

A "gun-howitzer" is a term often used to describe a compromise that developed between the World Wars in which a relatively long gun tube was mated to a howitzer type carriage. These combined the howitzers ability to fire at greater elevations with the guns greater range. This is probably the most accurate description for most modern artillery pieces in use in the world today.

Hope that helps.

[Patrick]

Is it fair then to generalize (perhaps overgeneralize) that a gun is fired directly at something you can see while a howitzer is fired indirectly and requires a forward observer or pre-registered coordinates?

[Rich]

Is it fair then to generalize (perhaps overgeneralize) that a gun is fired directly at something you can see while a howitzer is fired indirectly and requires a forward observer or pre-registered coordinates?

No. Any type of artillery piece may be fired indirectly, with or without an observer and with or without pre-registration. All that is required is that the firing battery site be located, from there any assumed target may be fired upon. Of course without observation of the target the accuracy may be questionable.

In terms of indirect fire a gun has greater range than a comparable howitzer, but cannot be as effectively used against targets on a reverse slope.

[Roger Griffiths]

In WWII, both German and U.S. armies used 105mm and 150mm as standard. British used 83mm (25 Pdr) and Russians used 76,2mm, 122mm and 152mm. I think most guns can hit a point using either low or high trajectory. At the excellent Larkhill Royal Artillery day, a gun is fired at high trajectory, then reloaded and fired at low trajectory. The two shells arrive at the same point and time.

Roger

[nigelfe]

Modern 'guns' (using that word in a broad sense) really date from the introduction of mechanisms to control recoil in the late 19th Century, this enable faster firing. Add to this the invention of cordite (etc) as propellant and the so-called quickfiring gun was invented, ammuniiton was configured as a complete round like a rifle bullet, ie a single propellant charge. This gave very high rates of fire, say 20 per minute. They were also limited in max elevation, eg the French 75 was 18 degrees the British 18-pdr 16.

However, one of the lssons of the Russo-Turkish war was that guns with limited elevation and flat trajectories had little effect on field defences. This led to the development of the howitzer, these were characterised by a max elevtion of about 45 degrees (sometimes less) and a choice of size of propellant charges. During world war 1 ma elevations increaed for both guns and howitzers as new ones appeared.

After WW1 the 'pure gun', ie fairly low max elevation and no choice of charge more or less disappeared from new designs for field although old or modified stocks lingered on into WW2. Most new 'guns' had a choice of charges and increasing max elevations. Some continued the world war 1 practice where a gun with fairly high muzzle velocity used the same carriage as a howitzer with larger calibre but lower velocity.

Today most field artillery involves a choice of charges and a max elevations around 65 to 70 degrees. Purists like to call these howitzers. You can take view on whether the characteristic of a howitzer in multi-charge or max elevation above 45 degrees or both. Pragmatists call them all 'guns'.

There are still 'pure' guns if you define such a thing as having a single charge - tanks, naval guns, AA guns anti-tank guns and coast defence guns all have this feature. Of course a rifle is a gun by this definitionso perhaps there's a calibre aspect as well.

During WW2 Germany field artillery had 'Kanone' (K), Feldkanone' (FK)and 'Feldhaubitze' (FH). Kanone and Feldhaubitze were both multi charge (although some Kanone were only full or reduced charge) and a few Kanone had a max elevation more than 45 degrees. Feldkanone were all(?) single charge. The alternative to 'Feld' was 'Gebirgs' (mountain). In heavier calibres there were straight 'Haubitze' or 'Morser'. Infantry guns were 'Infanteriegeschutz' (IG).

Calibres included:

7.5 cm, 15cm IG
7.5 cm GK & GG, 10.5cm & 15cm GH
7.5mm FK
10.5cm, 15 cm FH
10cm, 10.5cm, 12.8cm, 15cm, 17cm, 21cm, 24cm K
21cm M
24cm, 35.5cm, 42cm H

Some of these were very few, some involved several different models, then there were the railway guns.

[JeffF.]

Could the German 75mm and 150mm infantry guns or the 150mm gun/SP Bison be fired indirect? It seems that they were intended and used in direct fire roles.

[Freiritter]

German infantry guns, where were they in the ToE?

Cordially,

Freiritter

[JeffF.]

They were not in the TOE of arty units but each infantry regiment had a company with three 2 gun 75mm platoons and one 2 gun 150mm platoon. In my layman's opinion (as far as artillery issues) goes it does not appear that they can fire indirect but I'd be interested in knowing for sure.

[nigelfe]

Any gun can be fired indirect, in WW2 the british used AA, Coast, Tank, Anti-tank and Naval is this way. The issue is having a means of calculating fireing data and suitable sights.

German IG generally had a max range of only about 4 or 5 km, photos show them fitted with indirect fire sights although the sights often appear to be set in a way that suggests they were being used for direct fire.

[Roger Griffiths]

Freiritter,

leIG's were in many different heavy company organizations in different types of division.

Roger

[tigre]

Hello to all ; after a while.............

24cm Kanone 3 (24cm K3).

After completing the required tests, the Rheinmetall Firm began production of the gun in 1938. It was actually a 238 mm caliber and fired a 151.4 kg (334 lb) HE shell. After the Rheinmetall company manufactured the first eight of the 20 ordered guns, production was transferred to the Krupp firm. During transportation, the system was disassembled into five parts:

Barrel with 11,645 kg
Chamber with 10,555 kg
Cradle 6,700 kg
Gun carriage with 16,850 kg
Base with 8,500 kg

To this was added a sixth part that was a generator.

Sources: https://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Wa ... chutze.htm
https://reibert.info/threads/24cm-k-3.937023/

Cheers. Raúl M .