Late war "very heavy" machine gun units

[Gary Kennedy]

Bit of an obscure query, but has anyone seen anything on these units?

panzerworld.net/mg151

The organisation was based around three Coys per Bn, each Coy with three 2-cm Pls (four guns each) and one Atk Pl (18 Panzerschrecks). The 2-cm guns weren't motorised but horsedrawn, and I can't tell whether the mounts could be adapted for AA use, which would give them a dual purpose role.

According to the link, only two units were actually formed. What I can't quite understand is what role they were intended to fill. There don't seem to have been any problems with the existing 7.92-mm German MGs, so why the need to step up the calibre to 20-mm, especially if they were confined to engaging ground targets? I've found a few threads re the erdkampf lafette mounting itself, but nothing on the intended tactical employment.

I understand there was an intention (though I don't know whether it was realised to any degree) to rearm one HMG Pl per nA Grenadier Bn with 2-cm guns, so was the decision to establish two purpose built Bns a review of that aim?

Gary

[MadDog]

There might be two units that qualify...

ss.MG.Btl., or ss.Fest.MG.btl, later changed to fest.fla.btl. There were a couple of organizations (20mm and/or 37mm guns), all btl. had 4 Kp.

The other possibility would be h.flak.art.brig., each brig. had 2 btl. Dont rememebr the # of Kp per btl.

I am away from home, so this is all from memory.

Mad Dog

[donwhite]

This is from NARA series T78 roll 520 which has several frames on late war (Jan'45) German TO/E Heer units. My command of the German language is not great so I'll transcribe the detail basically as written. It roughly confirms the data already mentioned.

Under the 'Infanterie 'section the super heavy (ss) M.G.Btl (2cm/besp) shows a 4x company organization:
'Kopfstarke' - 763 personel.
' Hauptwaffen'-36x 2cm Flak auf erdkampflafette 44, 54x Pz.Schreck, 12x 8cm Gr.W., mindstens 150 Panzerfaust.
'Lkw u.Zugmittel' -4.
'Pferde' - 223
'Beweglichkeitsgrad' - 100%

There is a fifth column but my photocopy carelessly cut it off!

Just a casual observation, despite the high proportion of hand held anti-tank weapons, the lack of motorized transport suggests prephaps a more static type role vis a vis any AT role? -Does the number of horses compare with a regular Infantry battalion in terms of mobility?

Interestly there are several similar battalion sized units (Fest.Inf.Fla.Btl/2cm with 491 men, Inf.Fla.Btl.2cm/mot with 597 men & 2cm/tbew mot with 542 men). All have a substantial authorized holding of 70x panzerfaust as well as a mixture of 2cm & 3.7cm Flak. There was an 'Fest.Inf.Fla.Btl' present in Thorn in late Jan'45 (805th?).

Cheers

Cheers

[Piet Duits]

Gary,

To my knowledge, only the 78. Sturm-Division was issued with a platoon of 2cm Erdkampflafetten in each of the heavy/support companies.
I also know that at least one other (smaller) unit had some of those guns. If I am not mistaken, it was the Sturm-Batallion AOK 9 (no connection with the 78. Sturm-Division).

No specifications are given, but I think the guns used were the Drillinge later used on the Sdkfz 251/21.

[Gary Kennedy]

Don,

Thanks for the response, those personnel figures actually tie in exactly with some KStNs downloaded from Sturmpanzer.

My normal area of interest is Inf/Armd/Recce units of Bn size, and I'm less familiar with the non-Div German Army units. I've just in the last week or two been looking at the late war Fortress Bns, the Inf, MG and very heavy MG types. Judging from the KStNs they had very limited organic transport capability, but could receive an increment of horses and drivers to mobilise them.

The unit I was asking about initially falls outside of the Fortress types (I think so anyway), though I must admit the inclusion of a Mortar Coy has confused me somewhat, as I've no idea which KStN that would have used. The two KStN tables I was looking at (121a and 165a of 01/11/44) indicate the units were authorised sufficient horses to tow their 2-cm guns and presumably pack their 8-cm mortars and ammo. It's difficult to compare the unit with an Inf Bn horsepower wise, but they look to have been regarded as mobile within the restrictions of hooves versus internal combustion. The four 3-tonners in the Supply Pl is actually quite extravagent in infantry terms!

Piet, thanks for chipping in, 78 Sturm Div is one of those formations that makes my head spin so I haven't paid it much attention. Hope things are well with you.

Thanks,

Gary

[BobM]

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