Tiger losses of sPzAbt GD on the Eastern Front

[sniper1shot]

Igor, are you listing these facts just for general knowledge or are you trying to prove something? I mean, we know that the Germans lost tanks.

Gary, thank you for jumping into this w/both feet. Please feel free to find all of Igorns posts and find the common thread here. Once you have read all of them then come back to me.

We do not complain about how many posts a member puts up but we do start to get upset when the posts are CONSTANTLY about "How bad the German Army is/was and the person that posts does not accept the facts that the Soviet Army also lost some major battles.

Last note here,

No one is forcing you to read it. The only one who has any basis for complaining about Igor putting up many posts is the administrator.

You are right, no one is forcing me.....but check out my heading.

[GaryD]

deleted

[filfefil]

every time i click on an interesting post like this or the defeat of LAH at vezprem i get block text of blue letters copied from a book, not the balanced information we usually get ,like the thread on hill 112. it seems igorn that you just want to cause argument. maybe you could use your time searching archives in the former ussr and getting to us the real gold nuggets that i and others like me come to this site for. thanks for the brilliant forum i find it amazing but some of the sniping bleeps me off big time, sorry to moan .

[Eduard]

Well certainly Igorn tends to reflect the German defeats. But some times the answers and other opinions create interesting issues.


Tigers design was older than the JS 2 or the ISSU SP guns armed with 122 or 152mm guns.

Tigers were created to kill T-34's or KV 1's and resist the fire of their guns. In both cases they were successful. Their 88mm gun was capable to destroy both enemies with relative ease and its armour was most impervius to the 76mm russian gun fire. Not invulnerable but nearly.

But any weapon has its time. The Russians developed new tanks, SP and guns just to defeat the Tiger armour. The 122mm was a good solution, able to destroy a tiger and with a powerful HE to fight aganist the german fortifications. It also had an armour that possed a problem to the 88mm gun to defeat.
It also had problems: low ammunition supply and low rate of fire: The 122mm was a heavy round to carry.

So in 1944 Tiger I crews began to feel that their mount was not the invulnerable machine it ad been but just another tank. And their tactics also had to change accordingly. No more brave solo actions aganist the enemy but cooperation and mutual support.

... well you all know this.

By the way. The 85mm of the T-34 should have been very effective aganist the Tiger I but as far as I know it was not. Yes I know the ambush of the 501st Tigers II, but in normal combat situations.... Any interesting account.??

Eduard

[filfefil]

here is a account from the northern front during the leniningrad battles,no tigers , but worthwhile to show russian armour tactics. In the pale light of morning,Russian armour broke through the morning gray on a broad front and rattled toward Gubanizy over the open terrain.At first there were seven.Then,behind them,a whole mass of them.In addition to the -T-34 s , there were all possible types,even old models.The gunners of the 5./SS-Panzer Aufklarungs-abteilung 11 brought the enemy tanks into there telescopic sights.Six out of seven Soviet tanks in the first wave were knocked out.Then it was the second waves turn.It turned into a tank engagement, the likes of which i had never seen.The bark of canon filled the air.Round after round was fired from the barrels of the heavy anti-tank guns.The crews worked feverishly behind the gun shields.I had counted 61 tanks,many of which were right in front of us at that point.And the battle raged on. SS-Rottenfuhrer Spork headed for the Soviets at top speed in his Kanonenwagen and knocked out one tank after another over open sights at short range.I could not even hope to guess how long the fighting had gone on, having lost all sense of time. the surviving Russian tanks turned away. The breakthrough was a failure. on that morning of january 26, 48 Soviet tanks were knocked out at Gubanizy. Eleven fell to SPORCK.The rest to 5./SS-Panzer Aufklarung-Abteilung 11

[filfefil]

sorry forgot to quote, from Tragedy of the faithfull. page 35