ships needed for Sealion

[Andy H]

Since the British were already planning that if they were invaded it would come along the east coast most of their counter measures to a german naval build up would be concentrated there.

That's correct in terms pre the Fall of France, but once France had fallen the resources were more focused on the SE of England. Some people still thought the east coast could be a invasion point so the area was kept upto a certain standard, and certain troopsdisposistions were made with this in mind. However the main focus for men & materials was the SE

[von_noobie]

ok i will accept that this is a major what IF topic and that there was verey little chance of sea-lion succeding in 1940 but i believe it would have had better chance if either hitler was not in charge or IF it was to be lunched in 1941, plenty of time to build up at least most of the necessary equiptment to atleast supply the invasion force,

[Andy H]

or IF it was to be lunched in 1941, plenty of time to build up at least most of the necessary equiptment to atleast supply the invasion force

Though by 1941 Germany may well have redressed the balance in its required 'invasion' equipment, the British defences on land, sea and air were so much stronger,that it would have negated any German build-up.

[von_noobie]

possibly,

[Michael N. Ryan]

This is why things are achieved when prepared for in advance.

Nocking off Hitler certainly solves the first problem. His obstinance and shortsightedness cost Germany decisively.

Building up the invasion fleet in advance would have made Sealion possible.

A campain of deception and disinformation would have kept the British confused to where the invasion would come, thus making it possible for the beaches to be taken. And if the Germans had come in after Dunkirk the British would have had little with which to appose them.

[Torquez]

This is some of the stuff I learned while doing my homework for my novel Sealion's Byte.

They ware extensive war simulations made by British military after the war on Sealion.The German side was unable to hold the ground.

[Michael N. Ryan]

yes, they did it by making an immediate all out counter attack into the German beacheads applying all they had learned from five years of fighting.

The Generals of 1945 and their Political Masters might not have made similar decisions since they weren't that experienced, nor did they know the German plans. Just as Hitler had his eyes on Calais, they too might have held their forces back if they expected the main thrust at East Anglia.

At the same time, if the Germans had been better prepared, they would have done a better job.

[Tiornu]

"And if the Germans had come in after Dunkirk the British would have had little with which to appose them."
Except that little Royal Navy.
I suspect we've gone round-and-round. Anyone have anything new to bring up?

[Sam H.]

ok i will accept that this is a major what IF topic and that there was verey little chance of sea-lion succeding in 1940 but i believe it would have had better chance if either hitler was not in charge or IF it was to be lunched in 1941, plenty of time to build up at least most of the necessary equiptment to atleast supply the invasion force,

In 1941, prior to Barbarrossa, Germany still did not have air superiority over the channel. After Barbarrossa, the situation continued to deteriorate.

As long as the Luftwaffe cannot dominate the channel, the German invasion would have no chance of success.

[Andy H]

suspect we've gone round-and-round. Anyone have anything new to bring up?

Well those that believe it was possible for a successful invasion certainly haven't unless one counts mutiple WI's and no response from Britain

Game over I think, Victory to Britain

[Michael N. Ryan]

That's true.

Certainly I have made my point that the biggest problem the Germans had towards winning was t hier fink with the funny little moustache.

Would anyone care to discuss the various books on the subject?

[Michael N. Ryan]

Another thought for discussion, IF the Germans were able to pull Sealion off, conquer Britain.


1. Who do you think would offer to take over Britain's Government for the German Occupation? Who might their Petain be?

Loyd Gearge I know did a lot of talking on the subject of being a Peace Leader.

2. What would the next line for Britain to do, Make Peace or move to the colonies and resume the fighting?

There was some talk of moving the Fleet to Canada and keep on fighting but I don't know if that would be viable.

[Tiornu]

There were plans for continuing the fight from elsewhere, but the French also had plans like that--in fact, they had a solid agreement with the British to that effect.
Where was the Duke of Windsor at this time?

[Andy H]

Where was the Duke of Windsor at this time?

Wasn't he out in the West Indies, far away from trouble

[Michael N. Ryan]

I believe the former King was posted to some symbolic post in Jamaica.

And yes, there were plans to carry the fight from the colonies, Canada and the Carribean. The Canadian government had set up a place for the Royal Family. Churchill had plans to relocate the British Government in exile to the West Indies.

Problems are:

1. None of the Commonwealth countries had any real industrial base to produce big weapons. Canada had some factories that could produce tanks and aircraft, but they were limited. Canada had some shipyards but they didn't produce anything bigger than destroyers. Austrialia had far less.

The only source of major industry would be the United States, but that would really require stretching or doing away with the neutrality act.

It really depends on how much of the Royal Navy can get out of British waters that the next phase of the conflict can be determined.

Then there's the prospect of German Surface raiders such as the Atlantis laying mines in the harbors of Australia and New Zealand, atttacking the empire's remote outposts.

2. Canada in peticular would lose both its Infantry divisions and major ground units with the fall of Britain. As if there were any means to march across the Atlantic. A lot of Canadians might start looking south for a possible invasion. Australia and New Zealand would have to start worrying about Japan. I don't know what the other Commonweatlh Countries
losses would have been. But it would be worse for them than Dunkirk.

And all those troops of their's in POW camps would become bargaining chips.

3. How might it effect elections in the states?

4. Certainly with Britain down and no easy way of continuing the war, resistance in occupied europe would be less while Collaboration more easily justified.

There's lots to talk about.