4./Pz Rgt 4 in Nov Dec 44?

[Neill Warren]

Hi Guys,

After a lot of searching I have conflicting info, so does any one know if 4./Pz Rgt 4 was active in November and December of 44
or did they remain "personnel Einhiets" till mid Jan 45 when they took over 2 Kps Panthers?

Any help appreciated,

Cheers Neill

[Simon H]

Hi Neill,

This unit was more or less destroyed in Russia in late 1944 and not incorporated into a new formation till January '45 - when it became part of the 13 Pz Div? (I think).

Kind Regards,
Simon.

[Martin Block]

Neill,

according to its war diary the 4. Kp. saw no action during that time. It waited for new tanks, attended different training courses etc. until it was decided they were to take over the tanks ofthe 2 Kp.

Martin Block

Simon,

I'm afraid you confused this with the new 4./Pz.Rgt. 4 which only came into existence on 27.2.1945,when the former II./Pz.Rgt. 4 (13. Pz.Div.) was renamed to I./Pz.Rgt. 4 (13. Pz.Div.).
The old I./Pz.Rgt. 4 Neill was aking about fought independetly in Italy 1944/45 until it was renamed to I./Pz.Rgt. 26 and incorporated into 26. Pz.Div.
Shortly before, on 23.1.1945 the original I.Pz.Rgt. 26 had become I./Pz.Rgt. Brandenburg for Pz.Gren.Rgt. Brandenburg.

Martin Block

[Neill Warren]

Simon
Thanks for the reply. My fault I should have been more specific.

Martin
As always thankyou.
I have seen hints that 4./Pz Rgt 4 was active as a Korps reserve and whether it was possible that they got some of the 10 from 31 Oct directly, but clearly from yours they were not and they did not.

If I may a couple more questions in relation to I./Pz Rgt 4 for you

Given the Gliederung you show for 1.10.44 on Edi's highly recommended Panther site "Panther 1944" shows 19 in 1 Kp and 10 in 2Kp is it logical that 2 Kp received all 10 from the Oct 31 shipment?

For those interested here is the link to the Page
http://www.panther1944.de/en/sdkfz-171- ... teile.html

Also is there any indication as to why 1 Kp had 19 PzV on 1 Oct when I assume they were still under K.St.N 1177 (fG) v. 1.4.44
authorising 17? I would have thought with 29 in the 2 Kps 17 and 12 would be the logical balance rather than 19 and 10.

Again thanks for the help Martin, it is very much appreciated.

cheers Neill.

[Martin Block]

Neill,

a few men of the 4. Kp. helped with the 'Abholkommando' that picked up the 10 Panthers when they arrived arround Nov 5/6, 1944. Otherwise they spend the month of November with infantry training, training courses for signallers, drivers, traffic controlls in rear areas, watching movie shows, a soccer game against a team from the Werkstattzug (4. Kp. won 3 : 0) etc. pp.

The special reasoning behind the distribution of Panthers as shown in the OoB as of 1.10.1944 is not given in the available records.

Martin Block

[Neill Warren]

Martin,

yeah this is the trouble with Werkstattzugs, they never seem to have a good goalkeeper.

Again thanks for the help, it is always appreciated.

cheers Neill.

[Simon H]

[quote="Martin Block]
Simon,
I'm afraid you confused this with the new 4./Pz.Rgt. 4 which only came into existence on 27.2.1945,when the former II./Pz.Rgt. 4 (13. Pz.Div.) was renamed to I./Pz.Rgt. 4 (13. Pz.Div.).
The old I./Pz.Rgt. 4 Neill was aking about fought independetly in Italy 1944/45 until it was renamed to I./Pz.Rgt. 26 and incorporated into 26. Pz.Div.
Shortly before, on 23.1.1945 the original I.Pz.Rgt. 26 had become I./Pz.Rgt. Brandenburg for Pz.Gren.Rgt. Brandenburg.
Martin Block[/quote]

Hi Martin,
That was indeed what I was thinking of. Thanks for the clarification!

Cheers,
Simon.