St.G.Abt.914 (ital.)

[Lupo Solitario]

I got a german map for late 1944 in Italy, naming the St.G.Abt.914 (ital.). I'd like to know what the ital. refers to: had it italian personnel or equipment?

[Paulus II]

Hi Lupo.

Not much of an answer......but as the Abt. was formed on 25 January 1944 in Posen, had German commanders (Major Friedrich Domeyer and Major Dr. Fritz-Lorenz Rabe) and had its Ersatz Abteilung also posted in Posen (Wehrkreis XXI) I would say it is fair to assume that it was an Abt. with both German personnel and materiel.
But that doesn't do anything to clarify the (ital.) comment .

Hope that helps you along a bit.
Best regards,

Paul

[Doktor Krollspell]

Hello Lupo and Paul!

The (ital.) designation for Stug.Abt. 914 meant that it ws equipped with italian armour, most probably the Semovente Assault Gun. See Jason Long and Jim Brochot's informtion on the subject...

Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 914
Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 914 (Sep 44)

25 Jan 44 formed at Posen, WK XXI, with three batteries
1 Feb 44 transferred to Italy
6 Feb 44 received its (Italian?) StuGs in Verona
14 Feb 44 redesignated Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 720 (?)
Aug 44 redesignated Sturmpanzer-Abteilung 208?; re-equipped with German StuGs
16 Sep 44 10th Army, Italy; still equipped with Italian StuGs(?)
21 Oct 44 10th Army, Italy; still equipped with Italian StuGs(?)
2 Feb 45 LI Corps, 14th Army, Army Group Ligurien
[Nafziger: LI Corps, 14th Army (13 StuG and 10 StuH), 3/45]
E 500 (Posen/Warthelager, WK XXI)
SF: Feb I 44, South

http://www.sturmvogel.orbat.com/stug.html


Regards,

Krollspell

[Paulus II]

Hello Lupo and Krollspell!

I see there are some questionmarks in the information from Sturmvogel.

"6 Feb 44 received its (Italian?) StuGs in Verona"
"16 Sep 44 10th Army, Italy; still equipped with Italian StuGs(?)"
"21 Oct 44 10th Army, Italy; still equipped with Italian StuGs(?)"

But there is also this:
"Aug 44 redesignated Sturmpanzer-Abteilung 208?; re-equipped with German StuGs"

And from this site, http://pagesperso-orange.fr/did.panzer/ ... chutz.html, there is this:
"Combat uniquement en Italie cette unité est équipée de Semovente M.43 105/25 italien"

On this Italian forum, http://freeforumzone.leonardo.it/discus ... 717884&p=1, someone claims this:
"Feb 1944, trasferita in It. Riceverebbe semoventi italiani a Verona
........
08/1944 forse ribattezzata sturnpanzer abt 208. Riequipaggiata con alcuni stug III."
Re-equipped with some Stug III in August 1944

And from Martin Block on our very own Feldgrau there is this:
"On April 10, 1945 the units reported the following strenght:........Stu.G.Brig. 914: 13 StuG III (12 operational) and 11 StuH 42 (7 operational)"
Granted that this is in April 1945 while Lupo asked for the (ital.) designation in late 1944.

According to Tessin StuG.Abt. 914 was renamed to Stug.Abt. 720 on 14 February 1944 to St.Pz.Abt. 208 in August 1944 and to StuG.Brig. 914 in September 1944. Tessin has not added the (ital.) designation in his description of either the Abt. or the Brig.

After all this it looks like the Abt. was equipped with Italian StuG's at first and later received some German StuG's when it was redesignated to St.Pz.Abt in August 1944. But did it keep its Italian StuG's and were the German ones only replacements or was it completely re-equipped?

Confusing but interesting!!

Best regards,

Paul

[Ronzarion]

Hi all

Here is some additional information from wehrmacht-awards.com:

Hi Giel, i've done a research about the history of this unit:
Armed in verona after being formed at Posen, and from here was sent to Pescara beside the 305 ID to block from the south the "via Emilia". During the transfer from the railstation of Senigallia the soldiers of 914 brigade were striked from enemies bombers and they have many losses. The 914 arived too late near Cassino and Rome, on may 28 the brigade keept the way Popoli-Aquila-Rieti against the allied attack.
From july to november 1944 the 914 fough in a lot of battles near Parma, Genova and Alessandria. On november 23 it stopped at Pavullo, south of Modena, keeping the rearguard to permit to the inifantry to taking new positions.
Here enemy bombers and partisan operations give to the 914 many losses. On april 23, when the entire south front collapsed, the brigade gradually withdraw to the nort losing again a great number of men.
antony.s

Hi Rob, from what i can see the brigade were equipped only with "Carro Semovente" M43 105/25 (italian)
antony.s

It seems that at one time it was intended to use Sturmgesch.Brig.914 in the creation of Stu.Pz.Abt.218., the document below seems to hint at a complete battalion but we know that in fact this did not occur. A Stu.Pz.Kp. z.b.V. with 10 Sturmpanzer was formed but I believe the personnel for this unit came from Ausb.Abt. 18.
Richard

Source: Stug brigade 914 Thread on wehrmacht-awards.com

BR
Ronzarion

[DLI]

The newly activated Stug.Abt (later Brigade) 914 WAS equipped with ex-Italian assault guns on arrival in Italy. The unit was very unhappy with the situation and sent a message on 1.3.44 complaining that the Italian assault guns were "virtually useless" and specifically asking for german radios with which to refit the vehicles (Muller & Zimmermann, Sturmgeschutz III, Vol.1 p.195).

The Germans had taken over around 200 Italian assault guns in September 1943 in 3 models (Semovente da 75/18, 75/34 and 105/24) and kept all 3 in production in the Italian factories. By the end of the year 218 had been issued to German units - 191 75mm (both types) and 27 105mm. Most of these booty vehicles went to the tank destroyer battalions of infantry divisions in Italy; among the few Sturmartillerie units in the peninsula StuG. Bde drew the short straw - probably as a result of the temporary reduction in German Sturmgeschutz production at the turn of the year caused by the effects of Allied bombing raids.

Trying to make sense of the conflicting info given so far - it's extremely unlikely that StuG.Bde 914 was equipped entirely with the Semovente da 105/25 (a.k.a. M.43); 9 would be the more likely figure (and 22 75mm guns). The information from Tessin looks very suspect -Stug.Abt 720? On the other hand, Kurowski (Sturmgeschutz Vor) and Lombardi (Cannoni d'assalto - Avanti!) provide corroboration for a unit narrative that after taking part in costly fighting in the summer of 1944 StuG.Bde 914 was finally re-equipped with German-made assault guns during August whilst in reserve in the Parma area. But it would take a real researcher like Martin Block to provide the hard evidence!

[Martin Block]

Well, I'll do my very best

Upon arrival in Italy H.Stu.Gesch.Brig. 914 was entirely equipped with captured Italian 10,5 cm assault guns, and so records of H.Gr. C during the first half of 1944 do show 10,5 cm only and no 7,5 cm guns with the brigade until June 1944. During that month the brigade suffered badly and by July 1st, 1944 was down from 31 to just 7 Italian 10,5 cm guns.
Some 6 weeks later on 14.8.1944 OKH ordered to reorganize and rename the brigade into Sturm-Pz.Abt. 218. But 11 days later on 28.8.1944 the order was cancelled again. The brigade was to be rebuild with German equipment and on 14.-17.9.1944 22 StuG III an 9 StuH 42 were shipped from an ordnance depot in Germany to the brigade.

During my research in the OKH records covering assault gun brigades I have never come across an order or even a note mentioning a renumbering of the brigade to 720, and Stu.Pz.Abt. 208 is clearly a typo in Tessin's works.

Martin Block

[DLI]

Good grief - if only it was this easy to get complete answers to the rest of life's questions!

The Brigade must have received almost the entire stock of Semovente da 105/25 as only 30 had been issued (to Ariete II) by the time of the Italian Armistice and 4 were reported destroyed during the brief struggle for Rome that followed. Stug.Bde 914's description of the vehicles as "virtually useless" clearly requires a lot of qualification...

[Martin Block]

Before later being taken over by H.Stu.Gesch.Brig. 914 records show the Semovente da 105/25 first in use with 356. Inf.Div. (20), Reichsgren.Div. H.u.D. (12 later taken over from 356. I.D. when that division had been ordered to give them back), 26. Pz.Div. (7) and Pz.Ausb.Abt. Süd training center (2) in late 1943 and early 1944.

Martin Block

[Paulus II]

Thank you Martin, excellent work. as always!

So it was St.Pz.Abt 218 and not 208 after all . I've been wondering about that, finding nothing on a 208 anywhere, so thanks for that too!