Number of Sherman Firefly Tanks in June of 1944

Wolfkin · Post by **Wolfkin** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:07 am

Hello!

I was wondering if anyone would know the number of Sherman Firefly tanks that were available in the British and Canadian Armoured Brigades in Normandy in June of 1944. I am looking for the total number and the number in each Brigade, if possible. Thank you in advance!

Cheers,

Wolfkin

PaulJ · Post by **PaulJ** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:18 pm

Off the top of my head the ratio I recall is one per troop, which would be (he said thinking out loud):
4 tps per sqn = 4
4 sqns per regt = 16
2 regts per bde = 32

I think I have some old staff tables with the actual data.

Wait out.

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:42 am

PaulJ wrote:Off the top of my head the ratio I recall is one per troop, which would be (he said thinking out loud):
4 tps per sqn = 4
4 sqns per regt = 16
2 regts per bde = 32

I think I have some old staff tables with the actual data.

Wait out.

The actual numbers per unit on 6 June as recorded by 21 Army Group were:

2 CAB - 22
4 AB - 34 (as of 11 June)
8 AB - 22
27 AB - 29
33 AB - 36 (as of 16 June)
7 AD - 36
11 AD - 36 (as of 18 June)
1 PAD - 25 (as of 22 June)

The desired scale was 12 per regiment, with four per squadron (3 squadrons per regiment). Depending on the regiment the four were allcoated in different ways, sometimes one per troop (officially five troops, with one shortchanged, although some regiments had changed to a four-troop organization) or sometimes all were held as a squadron HQ troop. For example:

10th Canadian Armoured Regiment (Fort Gary Horse)
RHQ and HQ Squadron – three Stuart tanks, one ARV, two scout cars, and one Valentine bridgelayer (attached from 2nd Canadian Armoured Brigade)
A Squadron – SHQ and five troops each of two Sherman and one Sherman Vc
B & C Squadrons – each SHQ and five troops of three Sherman-DD each, plus two ‘spare’

PaulJ · Post by **PaulJ** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:19 am

Rich - Well done. You beat me to the punch.

Cheers,

Wolfkin · Post by **Wolfkin** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:33 am

Hello!

Thank you very much for the information Rich and Paul! This helps me out a great deal! I consider the Sherman Firefly to be one of the unsung heroes, so to speak, of WWII. It had a gun just as good as the Panther's gun along with the mechanical reliability of the Sherman tank. What a great combination!

Cheers,

Wolfkin

Darrin · Post by **Darrin** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:19 pm

Many of the CW brgades did not land with thier fireflys on Dday the tanks suposedly met them afterwards. The sherman non firefly to fireflly ratio went from almost 1 in 5 on Dday to 1 in 2 by the end of the war.

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:46 pm

Darrin wrote:Many of the CW brgades did not land with thier fireflys on Dday the tanks suposedly met them afterwards. The sherman non firefly to fireflly ratio went from almost 1 in 5 on Dday to 1 in 2 by the end of the war.

I'm unsure what you mean Darrin, 2nd Canadian Armoured Brigade landed with 22, plus two actually manned by their first reinforcements but officially on charge to the corps delivery squadron, 8th Armoured Brigade landed with 22 on charge as well, while 27th Armoured Brigade had 29. So the ratio was initially about 75 out of a total of around 450, or about 1-to-6, although I can give you the exact total tommorrow.

Okay, 2 CAB had 171 Shermans with 75mm, as did 8th Armoured Brigade. 27th Armoured Brigade had 156. So the actual ratio is 75 to 498 or 1-to-6.64 as of 6 June.

Do you have a reference as to which brigades "did not land" with Fireflies and why?