The Wehrmacht and Russia

[Commissar D, the Evil]

Hi, just as a theoretical issue and only for an interesting debate:

Did the Soviet Union ever really recover from the German invasion in 1941?

Bestens,
~D, the EviL

[panzermahn]

From another viewpoint, Russia only recovers in 1991 after the breakup of Soviet Union, 60 years after Unternehmen Barbarossa

[Rolf Steiner]

In terms of mistrust on the motives of countries to the west of them, perhaps not... has that weird Stalin nostalgia thing eased back any in the last year or so?

[Die Blechtrommel]

After 22.6.41 Stalin didn't trust anybody, anyone, anywhere. Did he earlier, not much!
He was totally incompetent for several days after Hitler's attack, and after recovering this shock, his paranoia went worse and worse.

I ask: How is it possible that the world had two dictators with severe obsessions at the same time-period?
Millions of people had to suffer, because of this duel.
I hope that dicussion here in more detailes will continue!
This so hard subject for me, I can not write no more now...

With best
Juha

[Die Blechtrommel]

I'm not that sad, so please let me know Your opinions!
I would appreciate opinions about desicion making between Stalin and the senior generals.
Voroshlilov and Budjonney formally still in the leading-echelons (Politbyroo), but actually without influence.?
Timoshenko downwords
Rising of these brutal generals:
Zhukov, Vatutin, Konev; the "covardish" Jeremenko,
And straight from Stalin's prison camps the "Gentleman" Rokossovski.
Vasilevski, Meretskov, Govorov...

Whoops, was this too much!
Juha

[Commissar D, the Evil]

I ask: How is it possible that the world had two dictators with severe obsessions at the same time-period?

That happens all the time. Historically, what's the difference between this and the Roman Emperor facing off with the Persian Emperor?

Rising of these brutal generals:
Zhukov, Vatutin, Konev; the "covardish" Jeremenko,

I've never heard Vatutin called "brutal". He was brilliant in the way that Manstein was brilliant. As for Konev, what exactly was he supposed to do to prevent his army from being pushed into the Don by the Wehrmacht? And Zhukov? was he really worse than Ulysess Grant?

Bestens,
~D, the EviL

[Die Blechtrommel]

Ok, I admit Vatutin's "brutality" was often a must. He had to submit and percecute Stalin's orders e.a. in the destruction of the Mobile Group Popov Feb. 1943.
The bottom line is that both Mr. Hitler and Tavarish Stalin were conducting not a "normal war", but a war of destruction. Human losses were't high, or none in their agenda.

My opinion is that "The Great Patriotic War" had so enormous affect for the Soviet "soles" that in spite of the death of Stalin and anything happening afterwards, this emotion was so strong that we fought the Cold War, and still do althoug a bit "warmer".

Mr. Hitler and his party (and the German population) was so totally and metally destroyed that the survivors hadn't much chanches but to try to live on.

Here's where Mr. Truman comes to the schene. Defending western democracy he did what "A man's gotta do". For the Soviets his politicts accelerated the already existing parannoia well after Stalin. Sad to say: Up to this Day.

So, here's my sermon. I hope the mankind shall learn someday!

Peace
Juha

[Tom Houlihan]

So, here's my sermon. I hope the mankind shall learn someday!

Gene Rodenberry aside, based on past experience, I kinda doubt it.

[Paulus II]

I too hope mankind may someday learn something useful from their history but as long as I see flags like the ones below being waved in Russia the lessons learned so far had better be unlearned

[phylo_roadking]

He was totally incompetent for several days after Hitler's attack

As in...drunk as a skunk...

I ask: How is it possible that the world had two dictators with severe obsessions at the same time-period?

That happens all the time. Historically, what's the difference between this and the Roman Emperor facing off with the Persian Emperor?

After all....look what the Easterners did to one poor Emperor...and then WE theorize for years about lampshades??? Nothing new under the sun, at all....

And Zhukov? was he really worse than Ulysess Grant?

Did he ever march through the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic?

[Die Blechtrommel]

Just great guys!
Keep it going!
Juha
P.S. I still think that Vatutin was no match against von Manstein.

[Die Blechtrommel]

Long time, no see!
I have an interesting book by Konstantin Simonov about Stalin and the war. Interviews of Admiral of the Fleet I.S. Isakov and Marshal of the Soviet Union A.M. Vasilevski of events before and during "the Great Patriotic War".
I could translate some of it, but I don't know where to start; from the 1930's or just 1941. The interviews are made in early 1960's.
What do you suggest?
I think the material is very interesting, things about Mahlis, Rokossovski, Eremenko, Kozlov, etc. And of course Stalin.
Give me some mental support, if you think it is worth it!
With best
Juha