Reminder about Holocaust and War Crimes Discussions!!!!

Fiction, movies, alternate history, humor, and other non-research topics related to WWII.

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Re: Reminder about Holocaust and War Crimes Discussions!!!!

Postby Domen123 » Tue May 26, 2009 5:10 am

Similar video about Jews living in Poland since the Middle Ages:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8C0l3mT0G0

In the past vast majority of all Jews from the whole world lived in Poland.

Many Jews who were persecuted in other European countries during the Middle Ages, escaped to Poland.

Most of Jewish culture was born in Poland and comes from Poland. So it should be called the Polish-Jewish culture.

A lot of Jews in Poland considered themselves as Polish believers of Judaism.

Often they were Polish speakers in everyday live.

Does it turn the lands of Poland into the "traditional Jewish lands"?
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Re: Reminder about Holocaust and War Crimes Discussions!!!!

Postby Domen123 » Tue May 26, 2009 4:14 pm

And here another video - this time about Muslims living in Poland since late Middle Ages:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQqPf6Dm1NI

Once again - does it turn the lands of Poland into the "traditional Muslim lands"?
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Re: Reminder about Holocaust and War Crimes Discussions!!!!

Postby Opa » Fri May 29, 2009 5:23 pm

Domen,

Dream on. What you're describing are Polish myths. Danzig was not a part of Poland for most of its history. It was first part of the Pomoranian duchy of Pomerellen. The dukes of the Western Pomoranians preferred to become princes of the Holy Roman Empire and germanize rather than be harassed by the Piasts. The Samboriden, dukes of Eastern Pomorania, founded the village of Danzig, and later the German city next to it, too. Once in a blue moon a Piast ruler of Poland would conquer, then leave, and then his troops would be kicked out by the Kashubs, after the 13th century helped by their German fellow citizens. During certain periods there was a hazy overlordship, but nothing indicates that it was part of the Piast Kingdom. Then the area became part of the Teutonic Order lands. Then it revolted in 1454, together with other German cities of the Order. The cities tried to get the rulers of Sweden etc to become their ruler in personal union, but the neighbors were too much friends of the Order. So they asked the king of Poland, making it clear that it was a personal union (like England and Scotland from James I to 1707). The legal language of this "Royal Prussia" was, by the choice of its inhabitants, German! The kings of Poland (hard to call them Polish as their ethnicity was totally mixed) broke the agreement in 1569 at the Union of Lublin. The German nobility and cities refused to accept this and attend the Sejm. During all that time, while the cities had a mixed population, the "locals" were Germans (albeit often of Kashub and even Polish ancestry, at least partly). Of course, they also cooperated with the Polish state, having no choice, but Danzig was powerful enough to give the finger to a number of Polish kings, such as Stefan Bathory in 1577, or in 1616. When the city became part of the Kingdom of Prussia in 1793 its German character did not change. Earlier censuses did not count language, but the first, in 1831, found 76% Germans in the Danzig region, and the census of 1923 95% (when it was advantageous to be "Pole" because they were the winners). It was a German city, surrounded by German villages, from which my father's ancestors came. That it never was a 100% German area, so what. Paris is not less French merely because of the centuries, many people of other backgrounds, such as Germans and Italians in the 18-19th centuries, and Moroccans in the 20th, settled there and merged into the people.

For more information:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danzig#Freie_Stadt_Danzig
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pommerellen
http://www.westpreussen-online.de/index.html
http://www.danzig.de/
Honny soit qui mal y pense!
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