Slovenes in W-SS

Foreign volunteers, collaboration and Axis Allies 1939-1945.

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Kocjo
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Post by Kocjo »

Please, forgive me for I had posted two (almost identical) posts.

Saj res, Klemen, ali si dobil raz.nal? Kakšne pripombe oz. komentarji?

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Slovenes in Waffen-SS

Post by KlemenL »

Zivjo Marko in KLemen,
Nope, neither Primozic nor Globocnik!
If not Globocnik, then I have no idea which SS-General did you have in your mind. :?:
I didn't mentioned Globocnik, because he wasn't a member of W-SS, but Allgemeine-SS, just like KlemenL. said.
Technically this is correct, but didn't you yourselve claim in your research paper that the border between Waffen-SS and Allgemeine-SS was sometimes very thin, like for example at Loibl Pass Lager. In any case, whether you take this fro granted or not, I think you should, if nothing else, at least briefly mention SS-Gruppenführer und Generalleutnant der Polizei Odilo Globocnik in your paper. Afterall his decisions hit one third of Slovene territory and caused deaths of quite a lot of people. Plus whether he like that or not he was partly of our blood.
A si s tem mislil Globocnika ali kaksnega drugega?
Ja, s tem sem mislil na Globocnika.
Please, forgive me for I had posted two (almost identical) posts.
No panick. :wink:
Saj res, Klemen, ali si dobil raz.nal? Kakšne pripombe oz. komentarji?
Yep, I got your research paper. Yes, I have some comments and suggestions, but please gimme' me some time.

I am terribly busy these days, working whole days non-stop, so only time when I have time for e-mailing is late in night, when I am on top of all totally bashed out, exhausted and the last but not least hungry.

One comment I can already give you and namely that the 14th Waffen-SS Grenadier Division [a]Gallizien[/a] did not surrender to the 14th Slovene Partisan Division as you are claiming in your paper, but to the British. However, it is true that parts of this division were cut off and taken by the partisans while retreating towards the British lines.

Lp,

Klemen
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Post by Kocjo »

Klemen,
it's good to hear a remark on my research paper.
The part of "Bojno delovanje W-SS v Sloveniji" I was working it with my mentor prof.dr. Tone Ferenc (you must heard of him), who described me a situation of W-SS in Slovenia. Then I add some more thing that he didn't mentioned, so it's posible for mistakes in my research.

Take your time on research-paper, there is no hurry.

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Post by Marko »

Hi KlemenL!

I wasn't referring to any SS-General in my post but rather to a certain Waffen-SS NCO.

P.S. KlemenL, I don't know why but I have a feeling I've met you on some other forum, maybe under a different username (just send me a PM).
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Post by Kocjo »

Klemen, you said:
pred kratkim (2002) so med gradnjo neke ceste izkopali posmrtne ostanke nekega neznanega pripadnika 31. SS-divizije "32. Januar" v pokrajini Brandeburg, pri katerem so našli medaljon Spomin iz Brezij.
Kje si to zasledil?

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Slovenes in Waffen-SS

Post by KlemenL »

Zivjo Marko in Klemen,
It's good to hear a remark on my research paper.
8)
The part of "Bojno delovanje W-SS v Sloveniji" I was working it with my mentor prof.dr. Tone Ferenc (you must heard of him), who described me a situation of W-SS in Slovenia.
Yes, I know who is Tone Ferenc. Isn't he retired by now?
Then I add some more thing that he didn't mentioned, so it's posible for mistakes in my research.
Don't underestimate yourselve too much :D I have read several of Prof. Ferenc's earlier works about World War II and not few of them were infested with a substantial amount of errors.
Take your time on research-paper, there is no hurry.
And this is exactly what I will. Otherwise my comments might contain new mistakes and this would not be good for your research paper.
I wasn't referring to any SS-General in my post but rather to a certain Waffen-SS NCO.
Simon Grascher (KIA at Kursk, 1943) was a (Carinthian) Slovene and probably the only "Slovene" Waffen-SS KC Holder I am aware of, so I guess it is he who you have had on your mind, isn't so? :wink:

But then again so did Andreas Mlinar, Egon Orinschnigg or Artur Pipan, a Stuka Pilot, probably have some Slovene ancestors. :D
P.S. KlemenL, I don't know why but I have a feeling I've met you on some other forum, maybe under a different username (just send me a PM).
Hm, I doubt Marko that we have met in the past. The last year or so I have drastically limited my apperance on the WWII historical boards, especially on those that are dealing with the European Theatre of Operations, and despite knocking on my brains right now, it seems I simply cannot recall ever speaking with a guy called Marko from Slovenia. Sorry. :(

But hey, maybe you can you enlighten the story? :D
Kje si to zasledil?
Well, a guy from Switzerland who is helping the German War Graves Foundation for Missing or Killed German Servicemen of World War II has contacted me via my former web site, and asked me if I can provide him with any useful details about the place of birth of the remnats of a digged up Waffen-SS soldier. As I said, they found a small medallion "Spomin iz Brezij" lying near the skeleton, so they were assuming he's from Brezje, what I have found to be extremly unlikely, because a lot of Slovene soldiers were taking this kind of religious medallion with them when they were called up in 1942-1945. On basis of local testimonials and official histories the unit that had fought in that area in the last days of the war were some elements of the 31st Waffen-SS Grenadier Division "32. Januar". According to them the Soviets took a group of SS-Grenadiers in the last days of the war and promptly executed them, along with a group civilians they kidnapped. Also the parts of the gear and clothing, which were found on the body indicate that he most likely was a member of the Waffen-SS.

Actually, I believe I still have somewhere a photograph of that grave with the skeleton of the alleged Slovene SS-Grenadier inside. Not exactly for people with soft stomach.

By the way, Klemen I just noticed one of your old messages regarding Waffen-SS units in Slovenia during World War II, in which you're asking for one unidentified SS-Battalion called Von Poulos. Well, I can reassure you that during my knowledge there was no such unit in Slovenia nor in any other parts of Europe as a matter in fact. Most likely is that your professor has probably interviewed a former member of the notorious Greek Auxiliary Police Battalion, also called the Poulos Verband, which was officered by Colonel George Poulos, a former Greek army officer. The 750 men strong battalion, which formed a part of the Greek Volunteer Gendarmerie (Ethelontiki Chorophylaki) in Greece in 1941-1944, saw plenty of service in Slovenia from November 1944, when it was transfered from the vicinity of Salonika (Greece) to Ljubljana (Slovenia), where it remained in place until the last days of May of 1945, when it moved to Kitzbühel, Austria. The unit itself was technically a part of the German Ordnungspolizei and not the Waffen-SS. Anyway to shorten my story here, Poulos and most of his men were caught in Austria by the British and eventually handed over to the Greeks. Poulos was sentenced to death and hanged but interestingly many of the men of his battalion were deployed against the the communist guerilla in Greece during the Greek Civil War (1946-1949). This unit occasionally appears in Slovene World War II literature, but as usual it is often misinterpretated or mispelled.

Did your professor by any chance tell you where did he interview this person?

Lp,

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Post by Kocjo »

Prof. Ferenc is retired, but is still working as "strokovni sodelavec" in INZ (Institut for modern history).

Klemen:
Did your professor by any chance tell you where did he interview this person?
Actually he is a she and just today I have asked her, if she could give me a bit more information on that unit or member and write it. She told me, that she was speaking with him, before the war of indepandency of Slovenia. He is (was?) living in Ljubljana, near Askerceva Gimnazium and that he (is) was still in contact with 60 of his former "kamaraden". Now I'm beging her to recolect his name. But she is 100% sure, that he was serving in W-SS unit.

This all happend during my defence of research-paper, when she asked me, if I know W-SS unit, operating in Slovenia, named Prinz von Paulus.

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Post by Marko »

Simon Grascher (KIA at Kursk, 1943) was a (Carinthian) Slovene and probably the only "Slovene" Waffen-SS KC Holder I am aware of, so I guess it is he who you have had on your mind, isn't so?
That's the one. I'm just a bit curious where did you get his name, maybe on TRF. Anyway I'll post the original info with some additions shortly. BTW I had no luck with Mlinar.
ever speaking with a guy called Marko from Slovenia
:?: :?: :?:
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Post by Kocjo »

OK, I looked on http://www.das-ritterkreuz.de and there was a data considering Grascher, Simon. He was SS-Unterscharführer, born in Timenitz, Krs. Klagenfurt (okrozje Celovec) on 18.12.1920 and was a Zugtruppführer in 9./SS-PzGrenRgt 4 "Der Führer". He was killed on 14.07.1943 by Belenichino. One month later (14.8.'43) he recieved RK.

Marko or Klemen, do you guys know the origin of his parents?

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Post by Marko »

Patience Kocjo, you'll get all the info soon enough.
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Post by Kocjo »

You must understand my "impudent" behaviour, because this Friday (April 11th) I have my second defence of my research-paper on regional-level (Ljubljana and area around it). I want present new data considering W-SS in Slovenia.

Once again, SORRY.

Marko, from where are you from, if you don't meaned?

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Post by Kocjo »

I went through my archive and found another Slovene in W-SS. I have a copy of his »Meldevordruck für Einstellung als freiwilliger in die Waffen-SS«. These is what he wrote:
- Josef Pernath,
- born on 15.3.1909 (Ober Plettär, Pettaui),
- nationality: Untersteierer,
- served in Jugo-army from 1926 to 1932,
- he lived on Mühlgasse Nr. 37, Marburg u. Drau,
- he was katholic,
- he was a civil servant (could speak German, French, Italian, Serbo-Croatian and Slovene languange).

It don't say in which unit he was sent in.

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Post by Marko »

Kocjo, why didn't you say that before, I'll send you a quick preview plus answer you the other question, OK.
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Post by Kocjo »

Thanks Marko.

LP,
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Post by Kocjo »

KlemenL, glede na tvoje
Si preprican za Antona Skvarco, da je bil pri SS-kraskih lovcih? :)
, ti odgovarjam.

Ta podatek sem dobil v Ferencevi knjigi "Satan, njegovo delo in smrt" na str. 130, 132, 135,...

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