Slovenes in W-SS

Foreign volunteers, collaboration and Axis Allies 1939-1945.

Moderator: George Lepre

User avatar
KlemenL
Supporter
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:39 am

Slovenes in Waffen-SS

Post by KlemenL »

Zivjo Klemen,
He was the son of a Baltic German Admiral who had served in the Czars Navy and fought against the Japanese in the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-5.
Hvala za pojasnilo. Tega nisem vedel, mi je pa znano, da so nekateri high-ranking admirals v carski ruski mornarici v Port Arthurju, kot npr. Admiral Stoessel, bili po rodu Nemci. No konec koncev, celo danasji ruski pravoslavni patriarh je po rodu baltski Nemec.
I read the book »Slovenci v tuji vojski« (Slovenes in foreign army). You forgot one more Slovene: Toncek Muhic (born in Lenart, before the war member of Sokol, joined volunteerly).
Nisem pozabil na nobenega, samo nisem ga omenil, ker nisem dobil nobene uradne potrditve, da je bil v Waffen-SS. kar se mene tice je on samo "alleged member" of Waffen-SS. Moras biti malo selektiven in previden pri teh osebnih pricevanjih.
About 2 executed Unterführer's from 11. SS-FE-Btl. in Slovenia. Their names are Alex Kristiansen and Walter Boehl (or Böhl). They were executed on 14.10.1944. The two NOV-officers, who interogated them, were Ivan Sirnik (partisan name Mirko; he was a squad-leader of intelligence-platoon of Lackov odred) and Mirko Tretjak (partisan name Romi).
I couldn't find any data about those two missing Danish Waffen-SS non-commisioned officers. I reckon it would not be bad if you got some more details about them. Try this board. I am sure the Waffen-SS section has at least one expert in Danish Volunteers in Waffen-SS in their section.
Considering the name of the second NCO I would say he was Reichsdeutsche or a Danish Volksdeutsche.
About Ferenc. Today wasn't in INZ, I'll try later.
O cem je ze slo tukaj? :?: :D
This I got from Slovene book on German occupation of Trzic. The least statement on Klemencic is a bit ambiguous. I don't know, if author is refering to time-line (until the fall of Berlin; May 1945) or to his participation in battle in Berlin.?!
Yes, I know the book or to be more precise, the "zbornik", a book of articles about the history of Neumarktl (Trzic). There is a nice photograph inside showing Hugo Primozic walkind down the town during the visit of his father's hometown in 1943. Now if my memory hasn't failed me here I believe the sentence goes something in this way that Willi Klementschitsch (Vili Klemencic) volunteered into Waffen-SS service and stayed in it until the fall of Berlin in 1945, what means that he had served in the Waffen-SS until the German capitulation and most likely survived. Otherwise how can we explain the knowledge of the author that he was alive all until May 1945?!?!

Lp,

Klemen

p.s.
I'm still waiting for Grascher info, guys. 8)
US PGA Commentator - "One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that, before each tee shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them .... Oh my god!!!!! What have I just said?!!!"
User avatar
Kocjo
Enthusiast
Posts: 584
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:18 pm
Location: Slovenia, Europe

Post by Kocjo »

Quote:
About Ferenc. Today wasn't in INZ, I'll try later.

O cem je ze slo tukaj?


About Handschar's war crimes in Slovenske gorice and Slovenes in Hungarian army.
BTW. In some book (can't rememeber the title) about NOG in Prekmurje were mentioned some Slovenes in Hungarian army. I'll try to remember the title.

BTW. Klemen, do you have helmet emblem of Wehrmannschaft?

Regards,
Kocjo
Last edited by Kocjo on Mon Apr 28, 2003 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Slovenija gre naprej!
User avatar
KlemenL
Supporter
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:39 am

Slovenes in W-SS

Post by KlemenL »

Zivjo Klemen,
Courtesy of Marko
I see. So Grascher's father was a Russian prisoner-of-war afterall! Willy was right then. Do you know of any photograph of Grascher?

About Handschar's war crimes in Slovenske gorice and Slovenes in Hungarian army. BTW. In some book (can't rememeber the title) about NOG in Prekmurje were mentioned some Slovenes in Hungarian army. I'll try to remember the title.
Aha. Well, I have read practically all books about the so-called NOG in Prekmurje and couldn't find much about Slovenes in Royal Hungarian Army nor any of my friends from Hungary or Austria. No personal testimonials and no memoars of former Hungarian veterans have never been published in Slovenia, what I personally consider a big shame.
BTW. Klemen, do you have helmet emblem of Wehrmannschaft?
hm, hm.... Pocakaj, da pogledam po arhivu.... Hm.... Ja, imam eno sliko emblema Wehrmanschafta iz septembra 2001, vendar slika ni ravno blescece skenirana, tako da bos za kaksno reanmacijo rabil dobrega umentika.

Moral pa bi nekje imeti barvno sliko pripadnika Wehrmanschafta v popolni opremi in z celado na glavi, na kateri se dobro vidi znak Wehrmannschaft zelo dobro.

Lp,

Klemen
US PGA Commentator - "One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that, before each tee shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them .... Oh my god!!!!! What have I just said?!!!"
User avatar
Kocjo
Enthusiast
Posts: 584
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:18 pm
Location: Slovenia, Europe

Post by Kocjo »

Do you know of any photograph of Grascher?
Leider nicht! :(
Slovenija gre naprej!
User avatar
Kocjo
Enthusiast
Posts: 584
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:18 pm
Location: Slovenia, Europe

Post by Kocjo »

Klemen,
do you have any info on Dezela from Kamnik.

In a book "Moje domobranstvo in pregnanstvo" by Eiletz, M. on pages 99-100 is stated, that he was talking to Slovene W-SS member Dezela in 1944 in Bozen. He was wounded on the Russian front and sent to Bozen to hospital. He aslo stated, that Dezela was decorated with RK (I don't think, that he was decotared with RK, probably with KVK).

Any other info?
Slovenija gre naprej!
User avatar
KlemenL
Supporter
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:39 am

Slovenes in W-SS

Post by KlemenL »

Zivjo Kocjo,
Leider nicht!
It's OK. I'll survive. :wink:
do you have any info on Dezela from Kamnik.
Nope. :(
In a book "Moje domobranstvo in pregnanstvo" by Eiletz, M. on pages 99-100 is stated, that he was talking to Slovene W-SS member Dezela in 1944 in Bozen. He was wounded on the Russian front and sent to Bozen to hospital. He aslo stated, that Dezela was decorated with RK (I don't think, that he was decotared with RK, probably with KVK).
Yes, I have once read some exceprts from his book and stumbled on this. If my memory serves me correct he also mentions another (or the same???) Slovene Waffen-SS member who faked to be injured just to stay in a hospital for a bit longer. Do't know whether this is the same man or not, but according to Slvoene phone book there are only about 16 Dezela's, of which three are living in Domzale.

I'll check to see if I can get some more on Slovene Waffen-SS troopers in the night.

Ajd' se se kej slismo,

Klemen
US PGA Commentator - "One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that, before each tee shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them .... Oh my god!!!!! What have I just said?!!!"
User avatar
Kocjo
Enthusiast
Posts: 584
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:18 pm
Location: Slovenia, Europe

Post by Kocjo »

Yes, I have once read some exceprts from his book and stumbled on this. If my memory serves me correct he also mentions another (or the same???) Slovene Waffen-SS member who faked to be injured just to stay in a hospital for a bit longer. Do't know whether this is the same man or not, but according to Slvoene phone book there are only about 16 Dezela's, of which three are living in Domzale.
Yap, it's the same man. He was faking his leg wound, that was allready cured.
Slovenija gre naprej!
User avatar
Kocjo
Enthusiast
Posts: 584
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:18 pm
Location: Slovenia, Europe

Post by Kocjo »

KlemenL wrote:I'll check to see if I can get some more on Slovene Waffen-SS troopers in the night.
This night is very long! :wink: :D

LP,
Klemen
Slovenija gre naprej!
User avatar
KlemenL
Supporter
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:39 am

SLO & SS

Post by KlemenL »

Zivjo Klemen,
This night is very long!
Mislim, da je sarkazem tukaj odveč. :?

--- cut ---
* SS-Oberschütze HERMANN OREL, geb. 10.10.1923 in Schönstein, KIA on 11.06.1942 at Bol Dubowizy (Rußland))

* SS-Schütze LEOPOLD GORSCHEK, geb. 09.11.1922 in Trifail, KIA 12.08.1943 at Res.Krgslaz. 3/IV Kiew (Ukraine)

* SS-Sturmmann WLADIMER GOGALA, geb. 22.07.1924 in Veldes, KIA on 15.04.1944 at San.Bez.2/1 1.Lw.Ortslaz. (Polen)

* SS-Schütze FRANZ MATSCHEGG, geb. 02.04.1905 in Marburg, KIA on 21.08.1942 at Kamyschinski, 60 km nördl. Kalatsch (Rußland)

* SS-Oberschütze KARL SCHMIDT, geb. 23.02.1920 in Gairach, KIA on 24.12.1943 at 600 m ostw. vor Cava (Italien??)

* SS-Schütze MARIAN SUPPON, geb. 02.09.1924 in Mannsburg, KIA on 08.03.1944 at Wapnjarka (Ukraine)

* SS-Sturmmann STANISLAUS KOTAR, geb. 08.08.1925 in Trifail, KIA in 1945, Deutschland

* SS-Oberscharführer ADOLF JARZ, geb. 31.05.1914 in Marburg, KIA on 19.04.1944 at Povlje/Kranj (Slowenien)

* SS-Sturmmann FELIX TROLL, geb. 03.02.1924 in Pragerhof, KIA on 11.04.1944 at B. Slobodka, Galizien (Ukraine)

* SS-Schütze EDUARD STEFLITSCH, geb. 17.11.1914 in Marburg, KIA on 05.10.1941 at westl. Possjolok Str. 4 (Rußland)

* SS-Schütze ANTON SPORN, geb. 08.02.1921 in Reichenburg, KIA on 24.12.1944 at nördl.Lipina/Südostslw (Rußland).

* SS-Oberschütze ANTON BRATUSCHA, geb. 30.12.1918 in Rohitsch, KIA on 21.01.1945 - 22.01.1945, place unknown, Deutschland

* SS-Sturmmann ANDREAS ZENTRISCH, geb. 30.12.1920 in Trifail, KIA on 09.08.1944, Adamow, südl. Dobre (Polen)

* SS-Oberschütze IGNATZ VIDERGAR, geb. 08.02.1922 in Trifail, KIA on 11.08.1943 at ostw. Kieslinki (Finland)

* SS-Schütze WILHELM JERABEK, geb. 28.09.1920 in Laibach, KIA 08.09.1941 at Pranckhöhe, ostw.Liza (Findland/Russia)

* SS-Schütze VALENTIN OPIETNIK, geb. 12.02.1901 in Mittlern, KIA on 05.06.1942 at Krainburg (Slowenien)

* SS-Rottenführer JOHANN WIDOWITSCH, geb. 08.09.1921 in Marburg, KIA on 15.06.12944 at Str. Kiestinki-Louhi (Finland)

* SS-Schütze DUSCHAN LOWRETZ, geb. 08.07.1922 in Marburg, KIA on 09.09.1944 2km nordw. Kruopiani (Finland)

* SS-Schütze FRANZ JUG, geb. 29.01.1912, KIA on 22.06.1942 at Krgslat. (mot.) 2/610 in Simferopol (Ukraine)

* SS-Sturmmann ALFRED HAJDINJAK, geb. 05.03.1913 in Marburg, KIA on 19.03.1945 at Stettin (Res.Laz.), Deutschland/Polen
--- cut ----

This is all for now. I could not find any further Slovenes serving in the Waffen-SS. I did find however some Carinthian Slovenes, but I don't know if they count as well in your research.

Best regards,

Klemen
US PGA Commentator - "One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that, before each tee shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them .... Oh my god!!!!! What have I just said?!!!"
User avatar
Kocjo
Enthusiast
Posts: 584
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:18 pm
Location: Slovenia, Europe

Post by Kocjo »

Thanks a lot!
KlemenL wrote:Mislim, da je sarkazem tukaj odveč.
Sorry for that.

KlemenL wrote:I did find however some Carinthian Slovenes, but I don't know if they count as well in your research.
If he has a Slovene blood in it, I'm interested. :D

Regards,
Kocjo
Slovenija gre naprej!
User avatar
Edelweiss.
Supporter
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:48 pm
Location: UK

Post by Edelweiss. »

About Handschar's alleged criminalities, I had believed that such allegations were exaggerations. Is this true? I had been suspicious of accounts that list the division as being "prone to atrocities", given the ruthless nature of warfare in the Balkans in general.

The mutiny was also provoked and encouraged by communist agents, was it not?

Regards,
Edelweiss
User avatar
croat
Supporter
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 7:40 am
Location: Canada

Handschar Division

Post by croat »

Edelweiss:

I recommend George Lepre's book on the "Handschar" Division; it is the only thoroughly researched book on the topic, and confirms your beliefs as far as the "prone to attrocities" claim and the mutiny are concerned.

Regards from Canada.
It is the inherent right of every nation to have its own nation state.
User avatar
Edelweiss.
Supporter
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:48 pm
Location: UK

Post by Edelweiss. »

Thanks, Croat. A most interesting book, it would seem.

Regards from the UK,
Edelweiss
User avatar
Dejan
Banned
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 1:39 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by Dejan »

Foreigners in Waffen SS (Balkans and Centr. Europe)
Slovenians 6,000
Albanians 4,000
Serbs 4,000
Bosnians 20,000
Greeks 1,000
Czech 5,000
Hungarians 40,000
Bulgarians 3,000
Rumanians 5,000
Special armed formations of Waffen-SS until the end of war created all together 38 divisions, 18 of which were staffed by pure German and 20 by foreigners. Among them was a "Handzhar" division staffed by Bosnians.

[Note: The table above refers to 'Serbs.' As everyone familiar with Balkans WWII history knows, these people were ethnic Germans, or Volksdeutsche, living in Serbia. They lived particularly in the province of Vojvodina, which belonged to the Austro-Hungarian Empire before W.W.I.]
:wink:
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of our liberty
User avatar
Kocjo
Enthusiast
Posts: 584
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:18 pm
Location: Slovenia, Europe

Post by Kocjo »

Are you sure about these numbers?

6.000 Slovenes in W-SS?

What's the source?

Regards,
Kocjo
Slovenija gre naprej!
Post Reply