The Polish Campaign

[Glyndower]

May I reccommend the writings of Anita Prazmowska and Anna Cienciala on pre war Poland and the September campaign.

It seems that throughout the 20s and into the 30s the Soviets were considered by far the main military threat. Polish planning recognised that Poland could not fight a war in the east and the west and planning was concentrated against the Soviets.

In 1936 when a plan for a possible war with Germany was developed the assumption was made that the Soviets would remain neutral presumably because in the event of a two front war it would all be over.

It seems that right up to the German occupation of Czechia the Poles had their eye on the Soviets due to a mobilisation of the Red Army that had taken place during the Munich crisis. The Poles had not recieved all that they were hoping for from the break up of Czechoslovakia and the subsequent German demands on them concentrated their minds to the possibility of war with Germany. Hitler had done a good job of lulling any suspicions they may have had.

Great stress was laid in planning on help from the west they thought that Poland was an important player with a military potential the allies could not afford to lose. That the allies would be prepared to let Poland go down the plug hole with no attempt at help because the country had been written off prior to the first shot being fired never occurred to them.

The only hope for Poland would seem to have been to jump into bed with one of its large neighbours. Hitler probably would have made further demands but the terms he offered over Danzig were not unreasonable though Poland would probably have ended up like Hungary or Rumania. It seems the Poles wanted to keep the British and the French out of the talks with Germany as they feared another Munich the French when they found out thought it extraordinary the Poles had thought they could negotiate with Hitler as if they were equels. If you compare the destruction and loss of life in Poland and Czechoslovakia it seems Polish honour came at the sort of price most people would consider far to high.

[Domen121]

About 52 divisions (39 infantry divisions, 11 cavalry brigades, 2 armored brigades and independent units)
995 tanks and armored cars
About 3500 field artillery pieces
About 400 planes

Cavalary brigade had only strange of 2 infantry regiments, not a division... 10th Motorized Cavalary Brigade had ca 3000 men. "Warsaw Armoured Brigade" didn't even exist on 1st September 1939, and was made during the campaign, mainly from tanks from other units.

Most part of Reserve Infantry Divisions didn't even exist at the begining of the campaign, at 4:45 am, Friday first day of September, only 21 Polish Infantry Divisions, 7 Cavalary Brigades, and 1 Motorized Cavalary Brigade were full-mobilized, and ready to fight, but of them, only 18 Infantry Divisions and 5 Cavalary Brigades were in the "Borderland Region", and only them participated in battles on 1st September, but some of them were in Reserves (like for example 8 Polish ID at Mlawa Line). Some units were not mobilized yet, and some units were enrout to their concentrations regions, like most part of polish "Prusy" Army. Many of "Prusy" Army divisions, never managed to get to their targets. Some other units hadn't got full of their equipment and armament. Mobilization of Polish Army begined too late, mostly because France and GB ordered Polish Government "not to provoke Germans".

Poland had only 855 tanks, tankeetes and armoured cars (most of them were totally unusefull in combat, some of them weren't even able to move).

Only 184 light tanks and about 490 tankeetes and ca 80 armoured cars were used in the campaign, of witch 98 were 7 TP's in two tank batalions (only modern polish tank, that could destroy german PZ IV and III), 34 were Vickers E, 15 were Renault R-35. Poland had also 102 obsollete FT-17 tanks, of witch 32 were using as panzer-coaches in armoured-trains units (they were supporting armoured trains).

Not much more AFVS were able to use (more of them were exploated or broken, or they hadn't have armament).

Polish Army lost in combat 649 AFVs (about 200 irreparably), compare to 993 that Wehrmacht lost (of which 606 irreparably - including 287 tanks). Red Army lost in Polish Campaign circa 471 tanks, of which 42 irreparably + many other AFVs. Slovakian Army lost 2 AFVs.

According to planes, Poland had only 157 fighters (of which 29 were PZL P-7's whithout any combat value) and 148 "bombers", of which 118 were rather recconascaince planes (PZL-23b "Karaś"). That gives a number of 305 combat planes, of which 30 were modern.

30 infantry divisions + 9 reserve infantry divisions

Each with :
3 infantry regiments
1 light artillery regiment
1 heavy artillery battalion (12 pieces)
1 engineer battalion
1 transmission company
1 AA battery

Reserve Infantry Divisions were much weaker than usual ID. Usualy they haven't got heavy artillery and as much equipment as other divisions. Number of soldiers also was lower, reserve divisions had max. 14,500 men.
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German units casualties in Polish Campaign (according mainly to Wehrmacht units Combat Reports):

I. Army Group North:

Army Reserve:
- 10 Panzer Division: 8th Panzer Regiment from 10 PD (only beetwen 1st and 17th September) - 75 tanks
- 73 ID
- 206 ID
- 208 ID - 176 KIA, 102 MIA, 359 WIA

3rd Army:
* Eberhardt Brigade:
~ SS "Heimwehr-Danzig" Battalion - at least 49 KIA, ? MIA, ? WIA
- 217 ID
- Wodrig Corps:
* 1 ID
* 12 ID
* 1 CB (Cavalary Brigade)
- Brandt Group:
~ Loetzen IB (Infantry Brigade)
~ Goldap IB
- 1st Corps:
* Panzerverband Kempf - 189 KIA, 567 MIA and WIA (number of MIA was very high), armor casualties on 1st September in Battle of Mlawa Line - 72 destroyed and heavily damaged tanks
~ 7 Panzer Regiment - (casualties only in first attack on Mlawa Line, beetwen 6 and 7 am, 1st September 1939 - 15 KIA, 19 WIA, 7 destroyed and 33 heavily damaged tanks).
~ SS-Deutshland Regiment – 98 KIA, ? WIA, ? MIA - exactly MIA losses are unknown, but they were very heavy (MIA - losses includes one infantry company, totally destroyed while fighting with polish forces of Mlawa Line, near village Uniszki Zawadzkie, in the evening, 1st September 1939) - maybe around 150 MIA.
~ SS Artillery Regiment
~ SS Reconesscaince Regiment
~ Pioniers Company
* 11 ID
* 61 ID
- 21st Corps:
* 21 ID
* 228 ID

4th Army:
- 218 ID
- 23 ID
- II Frontier Guard Corps
- XII Frontier Guard Corps
- I Frontier Guard Corps
* 207 ID
- 2nd Corps:
* 3 ID - (casualties only from period beetwen 11-18 September) 104 KIA, 17 MIA, 211 WIA
* 32 ID - only on 16. September in Battle of Warsaw 96 Infantry Regiment from 32 ID lost 150 men at Warsaw's Praga
- 3rd Corps:
* Netze Brigade - 197 KIA, 48 MIA, 309 WIA
* 50 ID - 192 KIA, 69 MIA, 397 WIA
- 19 Panzer Corps (1 IX - 4 IX morning) - 153 KIA, ca 700 WIA & MIA; all campaign: 659 KIA, 314 MIA, 1272 WIA:
* 3 Panz. Div.
* 2 IMD (Infantry Motorized Division)
* 20 IMD

II. Army Group South:

Army Group Reserves:
- 7th Corps:
* 27 ID
* 68 ID
- 62 ID
- 213 ID
- 221 ID - 129 KIA, 46 MIA, 273 WIA
- 239 ID

8th Army - from 9. to 12. September, in the first phaze of Bzura Battle, Poles captured 11 armored vehicles, 50 heavy machine guns, 3,500 prisoners and huge number of small infantry arms from 8th Army divisions (3,000 POWs from 30th ID).
- XIII Frontier Guard Corps
- XIV Frontier Guard Corps
- 10th Corps:
* 24 ID - Casualties only from 9. to 12. September in the Battle of Bzura - 472 KIA, 98 MIA, 1273 WIA
* 30 ID – Casualties only from 9. and 10. September, in the Battle of Bzura - 798 KIA, 617 MIA, 3000 POWs (+500 POWs from other divisions of 8th Army), 2431 WIA - of these more than 700 heavily wounded (I Batalion from 26 Infantry Regiment beetwen 13-20 IX in the Battle of Bzura: 126 KIA & MIA, 58 WIA)
- 13th Corps:
* 10 ID - 352 KIA, 76 MIA, 1106 WIA
* 17 ID - Casualties only from 9. to 12. September, from first phaze of the Battle of Bzura - 291 KIA, 122 MIA, 908 WIA (Batalion Abteilung: KIA: 40, WIA - 57, MIA - ?)
* SS-Leibstandarte "Adolf Hitler" - 200 KIA, 33 MIA, 591 WIA

10th Army:
- 4th Corps:
* 4 ID
* 46 ID
- 11th Corps:
* 18 ID - 717 KIA, 358 MIA, ? WIA
* 19 ID - 284 KIA, 116 MIA, ? WIA, on 16. September I. Battalion and 2. Platoon from II. Battalion from 73. Infantry Regiment from 19 ID. lost together 36 KIA
- 14th Motorized Corps:
* 13 IMD – 121 KIA, 84 MIA, 226 WIA - casualties only from Battle of Kock
* 29 IMD
* 1 LD – At the Battle of Modlin and Battle of Warsaw the division lost untill 21. September ca. 600 KIA, WIA, MIA and on 21. September it is withdrawn from the front because of heavy casualties; all together in September Campaign it lost 224 KIA, 81 MIA, 575 WIA, 95 destroyed tanks
- 15 Motorized Corps:
* 2 LD - (on Wednesday, 6th September - ca 100 KIA, 16 AFVS - mainly in Samsonow-Krasna-Luta region - while fighting against Army "Prusy" units)
* 3 LD
- 16 Panzer Corps:
* 1 PD - : 252 KIA, 19 MIA, 398 WIA
* 4 PD - (men losses to 20 IX, tanks losses to 25 IX) - 425 KIA, 121 MIA, 821 WIA, 94 destroyed tanks - 46 Panzer I, 33 Panzer II, 6 Panzer IV, 9 Command Tanks.
* 31 ID
* 14 ID

14th Army:
- 8th Corps:
* 5 Panzer Division (PD)
* 8 ID
* 28 ID - 410 KIA, 169 MIA, 863 WIA
* SS-Germania
- 17th Corps:
* 7 ID
* 44 ID
* 45 ID
- 18th Corps:
* 2 Panzer Div.
* 4 LD
* 3 MD (Mountain Division)
- 22nd Corps:
* 2 MD

III. OKH Reserves:

- 56 ID
- 57 ID
- 252 ID
- 1 MD - (casualties only from battle near city Lwów (Lemberg)) 484 KIA, 918 WIA, 118 MIA
- 257 ID
- 258 ID

IV. Slovakian Field Army Bernolak: 18 KIA, 47 WIA, 2 AFVS (according to Slovakian sources of cours).

- 1 "Janosik" Division
- 2 "Skultety" Divison
- 3 Dywizja Razus
- Motorized Group "Kalincak"

V. Luftwaffe: 386 KIA, 163 MIA, 407 WIA

- 1 Luftflotte:
* 1 Division
* "Ostpreussen" Group
* Training Division

- 4 Luftflotte:
* 2 Division
* 7 Parachute Division
* Special Operations Aircraft Group

VI. Krigsmarine:

Sea Forces - East: 2 ships destroyed, with about 30-80 dead on boards (including M-85 destroyed on polish mine on 2nd October). + other killed, for example few of Shleswig-Holstein crew.

Red-coloured units were fighting at Mlawa Line (from 217 ID, only one Regiment), called by Germans "Polish Maginote-Line". German casualties in Battle of Mlawa Line and Battle of Ciechanow (1-5 September) were about 1,800 dead and 4,000 wounded and missing

[Domen121]

Hi Domen,

Have you been able to isolate German losses against Gdynia? In particular, do you know Brigade Eberhardt's losses?

(Incidentally, Brigade Eberhadt and Danzig IB are probably the same unit).

Cheers,

Sid.

Hi Sid,

Yea, You are right - Danizg IB and Eberhadt IB is same unit, my mistake

Unfotunately no, actually im not able to isolate German losses against Gdynia, but i can say something about German losses at Polish coast in general - i have found something about number of heavily wounded German soldiers and captured Polish soldiers, who were evacuated to hospitals in Reich by German hospital ships:

- 12. September - hospital ship "Berlin" (15 268 BRT) takes 416 heavilly wounded German soldiers from units fighting in the coastal region to hospitals in Reich

- In the period between 27. September and 4. October, "Wilhelm Gustlof" took 585 heavily wounded polish prisoniers (most of them probably from Kępa Oksywska - where heavy and bloody battle took place, as You probably know ) and several heavilly wounded sailors from "M-85" (which sunk on polish mine at the begining of October) to hospitals in Reich

- First few days of October - "Berlin" takes more than 500 heavilly wounded German soldiers from Polish coast to Hamburg

- Between 13. and 17. September - "Stuttgart" takes 161 wounded and ill German soldiers from town Piława to Świnoujście (i dont know German name of city Świnoujście)

- Around 15. September - "Berlin" takes 133 heavily wounded from Piława to Świnoujście

It says something about both sides losses in battles at coastal region (battles at: Gdynia, Kępa Oksywska, Wejherowo, Władysławowo, Hel, Chałupy, and several other) - Fights in Corridor and Coastal Region were not a Sunday walk for Germans - thats what is clear, when we see previous given numbers :).

But unfortunately, i dont know HOW MANY HEAVILY WOUNDED were evacuated by sea, and how many were evacuated by land - so exact losses arent known

I also have informations about estimate German losses at Westerplatte, they are as follows:

- SS-Wachtsturmbann E - 9 KIA, 20 WIA
- SS- Heimwehr Danzig - 10 KIA, ?? WIA
- Pioneer Company - 0 KIA, 3 WIA
- Infantry Company from Shleswig-Holstein - 16 KIA, 65 WIA, 29 Injured
- SA, Polizei, etc. - ??? UNKNOWN ???

All together: At least 50 KIA, at least 121 WIA, at least 29 Injured

Source: Polish book "Westerplatte 1926-1939" author: W. Tuliszka

German casualties problem occupies 8 pages in that book - so i think its very good source.

And - for comparising - some Polish comunist propaganda books gives a number of 400 KIA - but that is total bullshit, and imposiible

Best Regards!

[Domen121]

GERMAN LOSSES :
40,390 losses (13,110 KIA, 27,280 MIA and WIA) + Soviets (3379 KIA)
285 aircrafts definitely destroyed (+ 279 damaged ones)
218 tanks definitely destroyed (8.5% of the engaged tanks)

GERMAN AND ITALIAN LOSSES (whole western campaign until the end of the battle of France) :
- 156,492 losses (27,074 KIA, 111,034 WIA, 18,384 MIA). This first figure established on 25th June 1940 has been corrected later to 45,218 German KIA (with the MIAs) + 111,034 WIA.
- 6100 Italian losses in the French Alps in a few days (642 KIAs, 2691 WIAs, 2151 frozen men and 616 POWs)
- 1236 planes definitely destroyed (+ 323 damaged) (about 500-600 victories for the French air force).
- 839 tanks definitely destroyed (33% of the tanks engaged according to Jentz)

839 German tanks were destroyed in the West, 1940

Of 839 German tanks which were destroyed in the West, 1940:

PzI, Pz II and Command tanks - 491 (including 240 Panzer II)
Czechoslovakian tanks - 116
PzIII - 135
PzIV - 97

419 German tanks were destroyed in Poland between 1st and 25th September 1939 - in period between 26th September and 5th October some tanks were also destroyed but i dont know exact number.

Of 419 destroyed tanks from 1st September to 25th September:

AOK 3 - 66 tanks destroyed - including 5 Pz III and 5 Pz IV
AOK 4 - 4 tanks destroyed
AOK 8 - 15 tanks destroyed - including 7 Pz38 and 1 PzIV
AOK 10 - 273 tanks destroyed, of which:
a) 4. Panzer Division:
- 46 PzKpfw I
- 33 PzKpfw II
- 6 PzKpfw IV - all six were destroyed during Battle of Warsaw on 8th, 9th and 10th September
- 9 KlPzBfWg SD Kfz 265 - at least one was destroyed in Warsaw, 10th September by polish light tank 7 TP
b) 1. Leichte Division:
- 9 PzIV
- 77 Pz35
- 8 PzII
c) 1. Panzer Division:
- 25 PzI
- 29 PzII
- 11 PzIII
- 16 PzIV
- 4 PzBefWg
AOK 14 - 61 tanks destroyed including 3 PzIII and 7 PzIV

So German tanks destroyed in Poland, 1939 between 1st and 25th September, were:

Panzer IV - 44
Panzer III - 19
Czechoslovakian tanks - 84
Command tanks & Panzer II & Panzer I - 272 (mostly Panzer II tanks)

Destroy tank = tank which cannot be repaired in field army service stations, but for example wreck of that destroyed tank can be transportet to service stations and fabrics in Reich, and there, mechanics can use their brains , and some elements from destroyed tanks + some new-produced elements, and they can make new tanks from that elements - this is called "CANIBALIZATION METHOD" - so - for example - u have 3 destroyed tanks, and ur mechanics make from elements of these 3 tanks + some new elements, one new tank.

Of 419 German tanks destroyed in Poland, German mechanics made / or repaired - 183 new tanks

Of 839 German tanks destroyed in the West, German mechanics made / or repaired - 441 new tanks

So they "definietly" lost 398 tanks in France, and 236 tanks in Poland

I can even write You how many tanks from different types they lost "definietly" in both campaigns - for example how many Pz IV's they lost definietly in Poland and how many in France (in France more ofc).

Soviet forces also lost many tanks in Poland, most probably they lost about 75 - 100 destroyed tanks (according to Soviet sources, they lost 42 tanks "definietly" - comparising with 236 that German "definietly" lost - so i think they had 75 - 100 destroyed tanks - as German had 419 destroyed)

My Sources:

"Panzer Truppen" T.Jentz
"Československá obrněná vozidla 1918 - 1948" V.Francev, Ch.K.Kliment
"Fal Rot 1940" J.Solarz
"4 Panzer Division 1939-1943 - Militaria 87"
"Fall Weiss 1939" J.Solarz
"Działania XVI Korpusu Armijnego w dniach 1-3 września” Wesołowski
"Mokra - Działoszyn 1939" Tym

[Domen121]

Some examples of polish-russian battles in September Campaign, that exact or estimate both side losses are known:

Battle of Borowicze-Nawóz-Huziatyń - 21 September:

Soviet forces - (part of 87 Infantry Division) - 16 Infantry Regiment, 71 AT artillery squadron, 43 divisional reconessaince battalion
Polish forces - 3 KOP Regiment, mjr. Jan Walaska's artillery squadron

Soviet losses (according to Russian sources - RGWA):

16 Infantry Regiment - 169 KIA and MIA, 131 WIA
43 divisional reconessaince bat. - 2 destroyed tanks, huge number of KIA, MIA and WIA
Motorized Company from 43 divisional bat. - 29 KIA (only 11 men from company survived!!!)

Polish losses:

Low - less than 100 (including WIA, MIA, KIA and POWs)

Result: Polish forces withdrawn across Janówka region, towards bridge on river Stochów

Battle of Janówka and Stochów - 22 - 23 September:

Polish forces - same as the day before
Soviet forces - all units from 87 Infantry Division + heavy artillery and airforce support + reinforcements

Soviet losses:

16 Infantry Regiment - 56 KIA, 84 WIA
87 Infantry Division - another 4 destroyed tanks

Polish losses:

Also high

Result: On 23 September Polish commander, facing huge enemy forces, capitulates, but on honorable conditions (polish soldiers and officers are not taken captivity, but they are allowed to go to their homes)

Unfortunately, Soviet busters treaten capitulation conditions, and captured all polish officers - later most of them were killed (most part in Медное - it's near town called in polish "Katyń"...)

Battle of Grodno - Grodno was the longest defended against Soviet agression big Polish city east of river Bug

Soviet losses in Grodno (according to Russian sources): 53 KIA, 161 WIA, 19 tanks, 3 armoured cars

Polish losses: 19 murdered officers (murdered after taken prisoners), many KIA, WIA, MIA - many of them were teenage boys, Grodno was defended also by polish civilians (in 1939 90% Grodno's inhabitant were Poles - today Grodno is in Belarus, but there still lives many Poles there)

Result: Soviet forces captured Grodno, but MOST PART OF 2,000 defenders, managed to ESCAPE, and later still fought against Soviets - for example in Battle of Kodziowce & Sopoćkinie.

Rest of them - escaped to Lithuania, and later to France - they wanted to fight in new-formed Polish Forces in France

In 1941 city Grodno was given Virtuti Militari - the highest polish military award, and was called "Zawsze Wierne" (Always Faithfull) by General Władysław Sikorski

Also soldiers who fought in Grodno - and later in 6th Polish Infantry Division in the West, were awarded by Sikorski in 1941with "Medal of New Eagles" (according to tradition of city Lwów defenders - "Lwowian Eagles" - men who defended, with great breavery, Polish city - Lwów - from Ukrainians in 1919 - and they won - Lwów was in Poland between 1918-1939)

Battle of Kodziowce & Sopoćkinie (near Augustów Forest - Suwalszczyzna region, north-east Poland) - 22. September :

Soviet losses (as always - according to soviet sources) - 4 destroyed tanks, 3 destroyed armoured cars, 11 KIA, 14 WIA

Poles claimed 22 soviet armoured vehicles "eliminated" ("eliminated" - that probably means - Poles destroyed 7 and heavilly damaged 15, Russians though that all of these heavily damaged would be repaired - but probably often those vehicles were unable to repair, so real number of lost vehicles is probably higher than 7, but lower than 22)

Very interesting think is that Polish Soldiers from Reserve Cavalary Brigade "Wołkowysk" who fought at Kodziowce and Sopoćkinie, hadnt have ANY anti-tank weapons - all soviet tanks they destroyed, they destroyed using so called "Molotov Coctails" (in Poland - Butelki z Benzyną ) (they burned tanks - not crushed them) and other "home-made" weapons.

Soviet Army March across Lember (Lwów) streets, after city had capitulated to Russians - afternoon 22. September:

Soviet losses: 4 KIA, 8 WIA (it seems that not all polish soldiers and civilians stoped fighting after capitulation)

Operation near River Dniestr and Beskid:

Soviet 13 Infantry Corp losses: 16 KIA, 65 WIA (most casualties caused by polish mines)

Polish losses: very low

Result: Soviet forces captured... 300 tankers of great polish Vodka in town Borysław (German captured that Vodka before, but they didnt drink all - hehe - and they were ordered to withdraw to west bank of River Bug - as pact Ribbentrop-Molotow says their commanders - they probably forgot to take Vodka with them )

Battle of Szack - 28. September:

Soviet losses (according to soviet "sources" - probably false "sources") 81 - 82 KIA (including 6 - 7 officers), 184 - 185 WIA, 9 completely destroyed tanks, 5 completely destroyed Komsomolec's - they dont say how many where damaged, and this source probably lies about losses (too small for such a big battle - and won by Polish KOP forces)

Polish losess: probably few hundreds (but Russian - as called "sources" - estimates them for 700 KIA and more than 1000 MIA !!! SIC!!!!! - they try to say Poles had 700 KIA and we had 81 KIA - in the battle which was won by Poles! - HAHAHAHHAHA)

Battle of Wytyczno - 1. October 1939 :

Soviet losses of 253 Infantry Regiment (according to Soviet sources ofc): 31 KIA, 94 WIA, 3 destroyed tanks T-37, 3 destroyed Komsomolec's, 1 heavily damaged tank

Polish losses (according to Polish sources ofc): 93 KIA, Prisoners who died from wounds - they had no medical care in Soviet captivity-, and murdered after taking to captivity (most of that number - 93 - were murdered priosners - that's how Soviets respected soldiers uniform and Geneva Treaties ...)

Polish losses according to Soviets sources (no - not sources but Soviet propaganda - thats right name for that bullshit...) - 380 Killed in Action, 1000 Prisoners (no matter that in Battle of Wytyczno fought less than 1380 Polish soldiers... - numbers which are in soviet, so called, "sources" - are always SO round... 1000, 500, 380 etc. .... )

Battle of Milanów & Parczewo - Polish "Kobryń" ID from SGO "Polesie" Victory - 30. September:

Soviet losses (according to Polish sources - Division "Kobryń" reports): At least 100 KIA (including 3 officers and battalion commander)

Soviet losses (according to Soviet sources): 36 KIA, 41 WIA, 3 tanks destroyed, 3 trucks destroyed, 4 Heavy Machine Guns lost, 1 artillery piece lost

68 Soviet soldiers were taken prisoners and used as porters (Poles let them to go, but they didnt wont to come back to their own forces or go anywhere - they were scared)

Poles also captured:

11 Heavy Machine Guns
7 Light Machine Guns
1 Artillery gun
10 Ammunition Trucks

Polish losses: 8 KIA, 7 WIA

Soviet sources means:

RGWA
"Sowietsko-polskije wojny 1918 - 1939"

Polish sources means:

"Agresja na Polskę w świetle dokumentów. 17 września 1939", Warzawa 1994
"Gdy Zamilkły Strzały" J.Klaudia
"Kampania Polska 1939 Roku" Cz.Grzelak, H.Stańczyk - pages 233 - 278, 317 - 367 - and numbers given in that book about Soviet casualties also based mainly on Russian sources, but authors of that publication - Czesław Grzelak and Henryk Stańczyk - always gives their comment to numbers that russian source gives (in some situations they agree with them, but most times they say russian sources are probably falsed by comunist propaganda - and number of casualties are lowered - sometimes i agree with them - for example with numbers given to Battle of Wytyczno and Szack - two greatest Russian defeats in Polish Campaign )

[sid guttridge]

Hi Domen,

Excellent stuff. I have taken many notes from your material.

Many thanks.

Sid.

[Njorl]

A few corrections:

Cavalary brigade had only strange of 2 infantry regiments, not a division... 10th Motorized Cavalary Brigade had ca 3000 men. "Warsaw Armoured Brigade" didn't even exist on 1st September 1939, and was made during the campaign, mainly from tanks from other units.

A Polish cavalry regiment had strenght equal to an infantry battalion. Every third cavalryman had to take care of horses of section he belonged to. Thus cavalry brigades had combat strenght of 1 regiment, 1 and 1/3 regiment (4-regimental brigades).

As to motorized brigades - their structure was based on German motorized infantry structure. 3000 men in 2 motorized infantry regiments (4 squadrons each), 1 motorized artillery battalion (2 batteries with 4 pieces each), 1 light tanks company, 1 company of tankettes, 1 reconaissance battalion, 1 AT battalion, 1 AA battery (2 pieces) seems too little in my liking. It should be at least twice that number. I'll check that after work.

Only 184 light tanks and about 490 tankeetes and ca 80 armoured cars were used in the campaign, of witch 98 were 7 TP's in two tank batalions (only modern polish tank, that could destroy german PZ IV and III), 34 were Vickers E, 15 were Renault R-35. Poland had also 102 obsollete FT-17 tanks, of witch 32 were using as panzer-coaches in armoured-trains units (they were supporting armoured trains).

I'm not sure about number of 7TP you provided. There were 2 battalions plus at least 1 company of these tanks which took part in defense of Warsaw. IIRC Vickers' were only in motorized cavalry brigades which would result in 24 machines (2 companies with 12 tanks each). And there was one full battalion of R-35s (45-49 machines).

Regards,

MJU

[Domen121]

Hi Njorl,

I'm not sure about number of 7TP you provided. There were 2 battalions plus at least 1 company of these tanks which took part in defense of Warsaw. IIRC Vickers' were only in motorized cavalry brigades which would result in 24 machines (2 companies with 12 tanks each). And there was one full battalion of R-35s (45-49 machines).

Yea, but 21st Armored Battalion with 45 R-35 tanks didnt participate in combat - so I dont include it into tanks which were "combat used" - 1st Batalion with 45 R-35s was ordered to withdraw to Rumania, without single battle.

34 polish R-35s from 21st Battalion had driven to Rumania on 18. IX

Only 6 R-35s from that battalion joined 10th Motorized Cavalary Brigade and had withdrawn to Hungary with general Maczek's brigade (but they didnt participate in combat because they had joined Maczek's brigade on 18. September, and it withdrawed to Rumania next day).

And another 5 R-35s from that battalion joined polish forces fighting in Lwów - and only them (from 45 polish R-35s) participated in combat - all 5 were lost (destroyed, captured or heavily damaged)

In Battle of Warsaw fought 2 companies of 7TP - of which one had 11 7TP with 37mm guns, and the other one had 11 7TP with MG's

As to motorized brigades - their structure was based on German motorized infantry structure. 3000 men in 2 motorized infantry regiments (4 squadrons each), 1 motorized artillery battalion (2 batteries with 4 pieces each), 1 light tanks company, 1 company of tankettes, 1 reconaissance battalion, 1 AT battalion, 1 AA battery (2 pieces) seems too little in my liking. It should be at least twice that number. I'll check that after work.

10th Motorized Cavalary Brigade had 2 Motorized Cavalary Regiments - 24. and 10., reconaissance squadron (dywizjon) - not battalion, AT squadron (not battalion), AA battery, 1 light tanks company, 1 company of tankettes, 1 motorized artillery squadron, 1 motorized sapers battalion, 1 motorized AT artillery squadron + communication / transport / auxillary units

Best Regards,

Domen

[Njorl]

Hi Domen,

Detailed structure of 10th Motorized Cavalry is drawn in Steblik's Armia Kraków 1939.

I'm almost sure that 'dywizjon rozpoznawczy' should be translated as 'reconaissance battalion'. In cavalry units 'dywizjon' consisted of 2 'szwadrony' - squadrons. 2 'dywizjony' formed regiment. I'll look into it after work in Nowak's Dywizjon Rozpoznawczy 10 Brygady Kawalerii 1938-1939

Regards,

MJU

[Domen121]

I'm almost sure that 'dywizjon rozpoznawczy' should be translated as 'reconaissance battalion'. In cavalry units 'dywizjon' consisted of 2 'szwadrony' - squadrons. 2 'dywizjony' formed regiment. I'll look into it after work in Nowak's Dywizjon Rozpoznawczy 10 Brygady Kawalerii 1938-1939

Hi Njorl,

You are probably right with correct units names translation

I thought Polish word "Dywizjon" should be translated as squadron because we all use to say "No. 303 squadron", and in Polish No. 303 squadron is, as You know, dywizjon 303

Maybe You know how should i translate polish "Batalion"? Because if "Battalion" is Polish "Dywizjon", so how is Polish "Batalion" in English

10 Brygady Kawalerii 1938-1939

I have found some info about that unit (J.Solarz, "Fall Weiss 1939") and it says that 10th Motorized CB Order of Battle was:

3876 troops
30 "Bofors" AT guns 37mm
8 mortars 81mm
13 tankettes TKF with MGs (the best polish tankettes, better than TKS and TK-3 types)
8 tankettes TKS with 20mm guns (they were really very good, polish NKM 20mm had very fast rate of fire, and was able to destroy most part of German tanks - including PzIIs, PzIs, Czechoslovakian tanks, and maybe from short distance - PzIII)
5 - 9 (9 is from other source) tankettes TKS with MGs
16 Vickers tanks
4 75mm guns
4 105mm howitzers
4 AA "Bofors" guns 40mm
61 cars
19 off-road vehicles
191 (Solarz says 191) - 226 trucks (??? - 226 number is from other source)
227 (Solarz says 227) - 276 motorcycles (??? - 276 number is from other source)

53 special cars
30 artillery tractors
80 trailers
3112 rifles
433 pistols
102 LMGs
53 - 55 HMGs
8 machine pistols "Mors" 9mm

And when 10th CB withdrawed to Hungary, on 19. September, it had (according to mjr. Franciszek Skibiński, 10BK..."WPH" no. 2/1959, page 255):

About ~100 officers
About ~2000 soldiers
19 AT guns "Bofors"
4 mortars 81mm
4 tankettes TKS (how many with MGs, how many with 20mm guns ?? - he doesnt say)
6 R-35 tanks (from 21st Armored Battalion - they joined 10th CB on 18. September near Stanisławowo)
8 artillery pieces
39 cars (off-road vehicles are not included here)
198 trucks
105 motorcycles

3000 men in 2 motorized infantry regiments (4 squadrons each),

But cavalary regiment had max. about 900 - 1000 men i think (maybe even fewer than 900 man), and 10th CB had 2 motorized cavalary regiments (one ulans regiment and one horseriflemen regiment)

Pozdrawiam

[TPMM]

I thought Polish word "Dywizjon" should be translated as squadron because we all use to say "No. 303 squadron", and in Polish No. 303 squadron is, as You know, dywizjon 303

Hi Njorl, Hi Domen121

It's a similar situation as if you try to translate German words "Standarte" and "Regiment" into Polish. Both are translated as "Pułk", but Pułk is not always to Pułk equal (Polish saying)

Także pozdrawiam
PS. dopiszcie coś do mojego tematu o Powstaniu Warszawskim. Będę go uzupełniał przez jakiś czas, dam innym okazję poczytać, w jaki sposób obchodzimy tą rocznicę.

[Njorl]

The translation part is always a tough one.

I use English 'battalion' for Polish 'batalion' when talking about infantry and armour. When talking about artillery and cavalry I use it as a counterpart of 'dywizjon'. I have a feeling that German names of subunits, like 'Abteilung' for 'dywizjon', 'Bataillon' for 'batalion', 'Schwadron' for 'szwadron' and 'Kompanie' for 'kompania' would be more meaningful here. Here we have different arms and different structure of units.

As to 'Standarte' and 'Regiment' - the first one has to have some sort of distinctive history behind itself. SS wasn't strictly military formation back then (at least in comparison to reguar Heer units) and might have borrowed this name from, say Freikorps or other paramilitary organizations. But these are only my speculations.

The reconaissance 'Abteilung' of 10th Cav. Bde had:
- 1 rifle squadron,
- 1 squadron of reconaissance tanks (11 TKF tankettes, 4 with FK-A 20 mm gun),
- AT platoon (6 AT guns),
- motorcyclists platoon,
- MG platoon (4 heavy MGs),
- liaison platoon,
- pioneer squad,
- administrative and supply platoon.

Altogether 414 men, including 17 officers.

Quote:

3000 men in 2 motorized infantry regiments (4 squadrons each),

But cavalary regiment had max. about 900 - 1000 men i think (maybe even fewer than 900 man), and 10th CB had 2 motorized cavalary regiments (one ulans regiment and one horseriflemen regiment)

I forgot that 10th Cav. Bde (mot) had only 2 regiments and no rifle battalion (only that's about 900 men less than in 'regular' cavalry brigade!)

Regards,

MJU

PS. Domen, this might help you update your list of losses http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23618

[Domen121]

Sid wrote:

Have you been able to isolate German losses against Gdynia? In particular, do you know Brigade Eberhardt's losses?

Hi Sid!

"SS Heimwehr-Danzig" Battalion, which was part of the Eberhardt's Brigade, lost during the fightings in the Coastal Region - 39 KIA (not including casualties of this unit from the Battle of Westerplatte in which it had suffered additional 10 KIA), of whom:

24 were killed during the fightings near city Tczew
11 were killed during the Battle of Kępa Oksywska
1 was killed during the attack of the Polish Post Office in Danzig
1 was killed during the fightings near town Reda (German: Rheda), which was part of the Battle of Hel Peninsula
It is not know where the last 2 men were killed

+10 additional KIA during the Battle of Westerplatte

Some other stuff:

Panzer Division Kempf lost:

189 KIA
567 MIA and WIA (number of MIA was certainly very high - for example both sides relations and reports from the Battle of Mlawa Line prove that it really was)

PS: I have also added these numbers to the German casualties list which is above.

-------------------------------------------------

Now something about Polish casualties in some battles against Germans during the campaign:

The Defence of the Coastal Region (the Battle of Hel and the Battle of Westerplatte are not included here):

Between 1st and 19th September "LOW" (Ground Coastal Defence) forces lost:

107 KIA and MIA officers
2143 KIA and MIA NCO's and men

86 WIA officers
2144 WIA NCO's and men

That means, LOW forces lost 30% of troops killed or wounded (LOW Group forces had around 14,700 troops - it was around 75% of all Polish forces in the Coastal Region, and they suffered almost 95% of all Polish casualties in that region)

Battle of Kępa Oksywska (10. - 19. September) was the most bloody battle in the Coastal Region - most part of their casualties Poles suffered there.

The last battle - Kock:

Operational Group "Polesie" casualties during the Battle of Kock - 66 KIA officers, 184 KIA NCO's and men.

The Battle of Bzura:

Army "Poznań" and Army "Pomorze" casualties - around 15,000 KIA and MIA, 50,000 WIA, more than 170,000 POWs

Total Army "Pomorze" and "Poznań" casualties in the Polish campaign - around 18 - 20,000 KIA and MIA.

68th Infantry Regiment of Września, from 17th Infantry Division (Army "Poznań"), lost 1240 WIA, MIA and KIA in the campaign.

On 1st September it had around 3,000 soldiers and on 28th September, when it capitulated, it had around 1,000 soldiers (it was fighting at Bzura, then it broke threw German lines and Kampinos forest, and it was defending Warsaw).

The Battle of Hel:

Polish casualties - around 100 KIA, around 150 WIA (from 1st September to 2nd October)

German losses over Hel Peninsula - at least 15 shot down planes

The Battle of Mlawa Line:

Polish losses - more than 1200 KIA, more than 1500 WIA

The Battle of Mokra:

216 KIA and MIA ulans, 5 KIA and MIA officers
270 WIA ulans, 22 WIA officers

(according to other source only 62 Poles were KIA in the Battle of Mokra)

Air combat over Poland - Polish Air Force casualties:

325 damaged and destroyed combat planes (Luftwaffe lost 285 destroyed and 279 damaged)

KIA pilots - 61
MIA pilots - 110
WIA pilots - 63
Ground personnel, KIA + MIA + WIA + murderred = around 300

Luftwaffe:

KIA - 386
MIA - 163
WIA - 407

[sid guttridge]

Hi Domen,

Thanks very much.

I think I have exactly the same information as you on SS-Heimwehr Danzig and LOW.

What I lack is anything on the losses of the rest of Brigade Danzig/Eberhard, of which SS-Heimwehr Danzig was numerically only about 15%. Brigade Eberhard also had six army infantry battalions, an artillery battalion, a mixed reconnaissance unit and assorted attached VGAD and SA elements.

The other thing missing is the casualties of the rest of Korps Kaupisch, which included a 200-series reserve infantry division, border guard units and a cavalry regiment (if memory serves me correctly).

I have a suspicion that German casualties at Gdynia may have been just as high as those of the LOW, because the Poles had a good defensive position and were facing second rate German troops without tank support.

Unfortunately, hard information on the losses of Brigade Eberhard and the rest of Korps Kaupisch is lacking and so we cannot make a definitive judgement on how effective LOW was.

Cheers,

Sid.

[Domen121]

Hi all!

In the battle near village Andrzejewo on 12th - 13th September 1939, Infanterie Regiment 76 lost at least 52 KIA men (52 is a number of graves of German soldiers from 76. IR killed in this battle, found, and photographed - you can find photo of those graves on this forum: http://www.odkrywca.pl/forum.php)

Articles about this battle:

http://www.andrzejewo.info/readarticle.php?article_id=7

http://www.trza.andrzejewo.info/nga/nga ... e739b91f38

In the battle near Zambrów, 6. - 11. IX, mainly on 11th September, while recapturing the town, Polish 18th Infantry Division (from SGO "Narew") took 200 German POWs - when 18th ID was fighting near Łętownica and Andrzejewo, all of them were still in Polish captivity.

B. THE PHONEY WAR

German casualties on the western front from 16th October to 17th October 1939:

- 11 aircraft
- 196 Killed and died
- 356 Wounded and injured
- 144 POW and MIA