The Polish Campaign

German campaigns and battles 1919-1945.

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sid guttridge
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Post by sid guttridge »

Hi ANBO VIII,

I don't suppose you have any details about the Lithuanian partial mobilisation of September 1939, such as which formations were readied and what contingency orders they were given?

Similarly, do you know which Lithuanian units were used in October 1939 to move into Vilnius?

Can you recommend any Lithuanian military sources for this period?

Cheers,

Sid.
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Post by ANBO VIII »

Hi, Sid,
I shall reply to you as soon as possible. Maybe this evening.
Bye
What looks right is right.
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Post by ANBO VIII »

sid guttridge wrote:Hi ANBO VIII,

I don't suppose you have any details about the Lithuanian partial mobilisation of September 1939, such as which formations were readied and what contingency orders they were given?


Can you recommend any Lithuanian military sources for this period?

Cheers,

Sid.
Hi, Sid,
here's what I found.
Unfortunately, I failed to achieve any really interesting things regarding "any details about the Lithuanian partial mobilisation of September 1939, such as which formations were readied and what contingency orders they were given". Exept these: it started in September, 17 (the same day the Soviets launched their offensive), it's price was 30.000.000 Litas (sorry, don't know the equivalent in Pounds of those days), and - the most important - it was useless even though it significantly boosted Lithuanian morale in those severe times.
Some thought its purpose was the march to Vilnius, others presumed it was supposed to prevent Russians from violating Lithuanian border. Only the few realized that the best job that the Lithuanian partial mobilisation could perform was to intern Polish military servicemen fleeding from the inferno, and it actually did in a very friendly way despite the fact that both nations were not in state of fraternity for decades. Thanks to Lithuania's discrete and benevolent help in this case, hundreds of Polish officers and men were able to join up General Sikorski's Polish army in France via neutral Sweden.
It was assumed in that period of time that Lithuania could afford 250.000 troops in case of total mobilisation and 130.000 in case of partial one. To be mentioned is that the Lithuanian Army on the eve of WWII consisted of:
40.000 men and 40.000 members of the paramilitary organisation "Sauliai" ("Riflemen"). 3 infantry divisions of 3 regs each, 3 cavalry regs of 4 sqd each, 4 artillery regs, 3 motorised batteries of AA artillery (75 mm Vickers Armstrong), a unit ("rinktine" in Lith) of 36 Carden LLoyd light tanks, 3 fighter sqdns (FIAT CR, Dewoitine 501, Gloster Gladiator and Letov-S-20 L fighters), 3 recce sqdns (Italian SVA-10 and Lith made ANBO-IV), 2 bomber sqdns (FIAT Ansaldo A-120 and ANBO-41).
Similarly, do you know which Lithuanian units were used in October 1939 to move into Vilnius?
It was "The Vilnius Unit" (Vilniaus Rinktine) formed up specially for this "move", October, 28. Its pivot was The Grand Duke Gediminas Infantry Regiment (The First Regiment), led by Division General Vincas Vitkauskas. Obviously there was no need for a reasonable force since no resistance was estimated. The population of Vilnius greeted vigorously the Lithuanians due to the fact that they had already learned a considerable amount of things to be learned about "friendly" Red Army at the time.
In October, 29 a military parade took place in the city, with participation of detachments of The Grand Duke Gediminas Infantry Regiment, reserve unit of 1 Artillery Regiment, squadron of 3 Cavalry Regiment, tank company, Air Force squadron.
Can you recommend any Lithuanian military sources for this period?
Not too much, I'm afraid. Here is my favourite in English http://www.lituanus.org/ , and it's not purely "military". Yet I am sure that you can find there a huge amount of useful things.

Sid,
if you need more, just let me know. I will contact my friends in Vilnius University in such case. Just don't be shy, please.

Cheers
What looks right is right.
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Post by Pirx »

Hi ANBO VIII
What is your opinion about paramilitary organisation "Sauliai"?
I supose that You are, Lithuanian, and this organisation is not well known in other countries.
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Post by ANBO VIII »

Hi, Pirx,
to be honest, I have no opinion of Sauliai. As sources say it was nationalistic organisation of volunteers, with high morale, yet they saw no military action at all. Consider them Lithuanian "homeguard", that'd be the most precise characterisation.
Good luck,
ANBO VIII
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4444
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Lithuanian takeover of Vilnius

Post by 4444 »

sid guttridge wrote:Similarly, do you know which Lithuanian units were used in October 1939 to move into Vilnius?
I can not add much to the info already given by Anbo, though at some points (commanders, dates) I tend to differ a bit.

The Lithuanian C-i-C, gen. S. Raštikis, formed a dedicated Task Force. Its head was general V. Vitkauskas. The group consisted chiefly of three parts: 1. Infantry Regiment, 3. Dragoon Regiment, and a number of minor units, including motorised, artillery and even tank (or actually, tankette) detachments. The overall strength of the task force was around 8.000 people.

The Lithuanian units took their positions along the border on Oct 26; they crossed the old Polish frontier (at that moment having the status of a Lithuanian – Soviet demarcation line) on Oct 27 mid-day. At few locations some minor local handover with the Soviet troops was arranged. The key event took place in the town of Vievis; the orchestra was playing and the filmmakers were taking pictures while the Lithuanian troops were sawing the border barrier and demolishing other frontier markings. The event was aired live in the Lithuanian radio.

The 1. Infantry Regiment was approaching along the Ukmerge road, the 3. Dragoon Regiment was following the way from Kaunas; minor groups crossed the border near Valkinnikai, Varena and many other points. All units were maintaining the combat regime, with reconnaisance, coverage etc, and the advance was very slow. There were no problems encountered either on part of the Red Army or on part of the Polish population, but the Lithuanian units stopped at dusk, having done just some 15 miles.

The advance was resumed on Oct 28 morning, and the first army units entered Vilnius around mid-day. They were greeted by a number of Lithuanian youth, which arrived in the city by buses during the preceeding few days. No official ceremonies with the Red Army were arranged. No incidents with the local Polish population occurred. The Lithuanian takeover was completed the same day early afternoon with the army parade along the main street, with commander of the 1. Infantry Regiment gen. L. Gustaitis leading the troops, and gen. V. Vitkauskas topping the tribune. Col. P. Kaunas was appointed the military commander of Vilnius.
sid guttridge wrote:Can you recommend any Lithuanian military sources for this period?
Memoirs of S. Raštikis, "Kovosė dėl Lietuvos", LA 1956, is worth recommending and maybe not that difficult to get (esp. vol. I). I saw this book in the Lithuanian Library in Fulham some 10 years ago, in case London is your place.
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Re: did the French really intend to mount an offensive in 19

Post by ChronicMasterbator »

4444 wrote:It has been asked a few times within this thread already what the real intention of the French was. The question is whether: A. they indeed planned an onslaught against the Germans in the West and it was the unexpectedly fast collapse of Poland which rendered such an attack pointless; B. the French have never had any intention to launch an offensive and were misleading the Poles all way long; C. anything in-between.
My guess is Plan B. When have the French ever honored a military alliance and come to the defense of another country? And if you were said country, would you really want the French army??
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Post by sid guttridge »

Hi CM,

I think WWI adequately answers both your questions as to when the French ever honoured a military alliance (with Russia) and as to whether one would want the French Army on one's side (Verdun, 1,350,000 dead, etc.).

1914 and Yes.

Cheers,

Sid.
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Post by Freiritter »

During WWI, the French Army was the core of the Allied forces on the Western Front. French troops had endured the follies of Neville's offensive that nearly broke the French in 1917, stood toe-to-toe with the Germans in the attritional Battle of Verdun and it was the garrison of Paris under General Gallieni and the BEF that stopped the Germans at the Marne in September, 1914. As for the worth of the French Army as an ally, I wouldn't mind poilus on my flank.

Cordially,

Freiritter
Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics.
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Orzel
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to bulls eye

Post by Orzel »

you refer to poland as a crude anti-semitic, uncivilized and undemocratic country. pretty heavy accusations especially coming from an american, considering that in the the good old US of A , a black man couldnt walk in to use the same washroom as a white one till the 1960's. so if you want to point your finger at others make sure your finger isnt covered in dirt.

p.s. theres a reason why poland had such a huge% of ethnic and religious minorites, we were the only country which allowed for religious freedom, unlike the glorious germans, spaniards, french etc. Thats why in a country of 30 million we had nearly 5 million jews, not too bad for such an evil place filled with anti-semites. the civilized french, spanish and the germans solved their problems by murdering unwanted people like the jews, confiscating their property or by simply exiling them.
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Post by sid guttridge »

Hi Orzel,

Who is the "you" who you are accusing of describing Poland "as a crude, uncivilised and undemocratic country"?

Cheers,

Sid.
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Post by Orzel »

i refer to Bulls eye off course.
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Post by Ironrat »

At the end of the polish campaign some of the polish armored units dumped their equipment (7TP and TKS) into the Bug river before taking the trip to Rumania. How many of this tanks and tankettes were recovered by the Russians. Are there any documents related?
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Post by 2nd SS Panzer Das Reich »

Pirx wrote:Fredd.
As a Pole i'm also proud from Polish soldiers from September Campaign. But i'm shamed that You are laughing from French, Belgian or Netherlands. They also were good soldiers, and many of them died with honour. Don't be nationalist, and be careful with Your opinion, coz soldiers often fight well, but battles were lost by generals and politicians.
Each soldier, who sacrifice own live to defend homeland shall be respected by Feldgrau members. I'm trully sorry.

Bravo! (claps hands) very well said my friend. The Polish will to fight did not end after the fall of Warsaw. Some say the firefly Sherman crew that took out Michael Wittmann was Polish. May god honor the souls of the soldiers that died in World War II.
Wehrmacht: men of courage
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Post by Timo »

2nd SS Panzer Das Reich wrote:Some say the firefly Sherman crew that took out Michael Wittmann was Polish. May god honor the souls of the soldiers that died in World War II.
Poles in the Northamptonshire Yeomanry?
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