kursk

[mea]

Hi
i'm collecting some informations about russian rifle division for 5-12..43 period that were present on following books:
- Nikolaj Fedoseevic Shitikov, “Pylayushchie vysoty”, Voronezh, 1983
(memorya 81. Rifle Division)
- B. S. Venkov and P. P. Dudinov, “Gvardeiskaya doblest’”, Voenizdat, 1979
(histor 70. Guard rifle Division)
- N. S. Lazebnikov and N. M. Lobachev, “S Urala do El’by”, ?
(history 175. rifle Division)
- Pavel Filippovic Moiseev, “Propast’, chtoby vernut’sya”, ?
(history 81.rifle Division)
Any of you possed those books? May he send me some scan of them (only regarding cited period)?
Thanks in advance
carlo

[nebelwerferXXX]

Soviet Rifle divisions:
14,300 men...the defense of Moscow...Geoffrey Jukes

Soviet Rifle divisions:
div HQ
3 regiments of 3 battalions each
1 artillery regiment
independent anti-tank artillery battery
recon company
engineers battalion
signals battalion

[source: Kursk: the clash of armour...Geoffrey Jukes]

[nebelwerferXXX]

Kursk: Line-up for the battle: Red Army
1,337,000 troops
20,220 guns & mortars
3,306 tanks & assault guns (SU-76, T-34 & KV-1)
2,650 aircraft (Shturmovik)

[nebelwerferXXX]

Title: Kursk: the clash of armour
Author: Geoffrey Jukes
copyright: 1968 Ballantine Books Inc.
no. of pages: 160

Operation Citadel
The Salient is formed
The Germans prepare
The Red Army prepares
Dispositions, leaders and tactics
The German offensive
The Red Army recovers ground
Cataclysm in the south
Germany leaves Eastern Ukraine
Bibliography

[nebelwerferXXX]

By comparison: Kursk: Tank production per month

German:
100 Panzer Mark IVs
50 Panthers
25 Tigers

Soviet:
1,000 T-34 medium tanks
1,000 KV heavy tanks

[ljadw]

german losses:54182;Russian losses :177847(official figures)
tanks:Germany :252;SU:1614(official figure)
Source:Das Deutsche Reich und deer Zweite Weltkrieg Bnd VIII P 150

[paul_atrydes]

By comparison: Kursk: Tank production per month

German:
100 Panzer Mark IVs

May 43 - 272
June 43 - 253
July 43 - 244
August 43 - 283

50 Panthers

162 / 160 / 202 / 120

25 Tigers

50 / 60 / 65 / 60

Soviet:
1,000 T-34 medium tanks

~1 300 / 995 / 1 302 /1 333

1,000 KV heavy tanks

75 / 30 / 52 / 61

[paul_atrydes]

Kursk: Line-up for the battle: Red Army
1,337,000 troops
20,220 guns & mortars
3,306 tanks & assault guns (SU-76, T-34 & KV-1)

And T-70.

[paul_atrydes]

german losses:54182;Russian losses :177847(official figures)
tanks:Germany :252;

Actually a little more. Here table with losses of AG South up to 31 July 1943. Losses of divisions during 21-31 July which were detached from 4th Pz.A. before 20 July is not shown.

[ljadw]

Soviet Rifle divisions:
14,300 men...the defense of Moscow...Geoffrey Jukes

Soviet Rifle divisions:
div HQ
3 regiments of 3 battalions each
1 artillery regiment
independent anti-tank artillery battery
recon company
engineers battalion
signals battalion

[source: Kursk: the clash of armour...Geoffrey Jukes]

1) I should not use the THEORETICAL strenght of a rifle division end 1941,for the battle of Kursk
2) Russian frontstrenght in june 1943:5.5 million
riffle divisions :494
rifle brigades:234
fortified zones :27
mobile divisions :35
tank brigades:31
artillery divisions :41
artillery brigades :97
a rifle division of 10000 men would be very exceptional
3) the theoretical strength of a self-prppelled artillery regiment was between 440 and 476 men
an anti-tank regiment :546
a motorized batallion:662
a tank brigade:1306
a reconnaissance batallion:220 men
4) a informal rule could be:comparing a Soviet unit with a lower Western
division =brigade
regiment=batallion
batallion =company

[ljadw]

german losses:54182;Russian losses :177847(official figures)
tanks:Germany :252;

Actually a little more. Here table with losses of AG South up to 31 July 1943. Losses of divisions during 21-31 July which were detached from 4th Pz.A. before 20 July is not shown.

I don't dispute it,my figures are for 05 to 16 july only

[paul_atrydes]

I don't dispute it,my figures are for 05 to 16 july only

But for Soviet figures up to 23 July. And almost all figures in the table concern the period till 20 July, except 20 tanks and StuGs lost later.

[ljadw]

Kursk: Line-up for the battle: Red Army
1,337,000 troops
20,220 guns & mortars
3,306 tanks & assault guns (SU-76, T-34 & KV-1)
2,650 aircraft (Shturmovik)

It depends on what one is counting
ready for combat (in German "tagesstarke)
Central front :510983
Woronesh front:466236
Steppefront:449133
Artillery:31415
Tanks and SU:4938
Aircraft:2400
These figures are for 05 july,and without reinforcements .

[nebelwerferXXX]

German losses: Operation Citadel 1943
July 5/6: 25,000 killed & wounded, 200 tanks & 200 aircraft
July 12: 10,000 men & 350 tanks

[ljadw]

hm,german casualties for Citadelle (05 to 16 july):54182:KIA 9O63 WIA 43159 MIA 1960
aircraft losses :159