Winter of 1941/42 and the lack of proper equipment

[ljadw]

Again some one refusing to understand .
Where did I write that there never was minus 49 C??
But,the fact that at a certain date,it was that cold,does NOT mean that the winter was exceptionnally cold .
And,if the winter was exceptionnally cold,how was it possible that the Germans survived such winter ?
There is ONLY ONE explanation :the Germans had winterclothing .
You seems also to ignore that minus 30C was NOT unknown in Germany,and,that the Germans knew how to protect against the cold .
Tätigkeitsbericht des divisionsarztes des 7 ID(report of the the divisional surgeon of the 7 ID) on 6 december:
all soldiers had Kopfschützen (=head protection)
60 % had Fingerhandschuhe(=gloves)
68 % had Übermantel (=overcoats)
35 % had Postenschuhe(=special shoes for sentinels)
20 % had Überhandschuhe (=special gloves)
This is before the arrival of the winterclothing from operation Boog.
This is also the official military supply,that was distributed by the QM.
Of course,all soldiers had secret stocks:from home,"organized " some where behind the front,but,no one was that stupid to declare them officially.
If the Germans had no winter clothing (even if the winter was only average),no one would have survived .
And,I am still waiting for some one proving that the 1941/1942 winter was,following the Soviet standars,exceptionnally cold .
But,I expect (better:I am certain) that a lot of people will continue to parrot the propaganda of Dr Göbbels.

[julian]

Nothing is more stupid than to deny the welldocumented fact that german soldiers had insufficient winterclothing. The evidence of that is vast and does not come from Goebbels. Comes from those that were actually there. And the harshness of that winter is also welldocumented.
It would be on the internet that somebody would to deny even the most obvious facts.

[ljadw]

I was certain that some one would parrot Göbbels(the German failure being caused by the winter) and the defeated German generals (blaming Hitler for the absence of winterclothing)

[ljadw]

I also see that the knowledge of Lameck about the Ardennes is very limited :the goal of the Germans was to go to Liege and ultimately to Antwerp (Bastogne was irrelevant) :after a few days,Liege had to be captured,but the Gemans were stopped at StVith,and this,not Bastogne,caused the German failure .

[ljadw]

On 6 december,the morning temperature at Leningrad was minus 12.8C.Is there here some one claiming that the Germans could resist this temperature without winter clothing ?
On 7 december,it was minus 20.6 Same question
On 3 january 1942,it was (in Moscow) minus 35.9 Same question
On 13 january (in Moscow) 30.6 Same question
Etc
Etc

[julian]

I was certain that some one would parrot Göbbels(the German failure being caused by the winter) and the defeated German generals (blaming Hitler for the absence of winterclothing)

The only thing that has been stated here is the wellknown fact of the lack of sufficient winterclothing which does not come from Goebbels. But not surprisingly the denial of the obvious has an agenda behind it.

[julian]

On 6 december,the morning temperature at Leningrad was minus 12.8C.Is there here some one claiming that the Germans could resist this temperature without winter clothing ?
On 7 december,it was minus 20.6 Same question
On 3 january 1942,it was (in Moscow) minus 35.9 Same question
On 13 january (in Moscow) 30.6 Same question
Etc
Etc

Improvisations were used as you can read in any unithistory....

[julian]

I also see that the knowledge of Lameck about the Ardennes is very limited :the goal of the Germans was to go to Liege and ultimately to Antwerp (Bastogne was irrelevant) :after a few days,Liege had to be captured,but the Gemans were stopped at StVith,and this,not Bastogne,caused the German failure .

As the germans took St Vith, this is nonsense. Somebody with your own lack of knowledge should not attack others.

[ljadw]

Thus you are denying that the Schwertepunkt of the offensive was in the north,with the 6 PzArmy,with as goal Antwerp ?
Some one with your lack of knowledge should not attack others

[ljadw]

Following the German plan,St Vith had to be captured on 17 december ,it only was captured on 23 december .And,on this date,the Germans had lost all opportunity to arrive at Antwerp .

[Tom Houlihan]

What exactly do St.Vith, Bastogne, and the Ardennes Offensive have to do with proper equipment during the Winter of 41/42?

The petty sniping is annoying enough, but keep it on topic. Or take your schoolyard bickering to email.

[ljadw]

The following are from the post by Ch.Awender on the situation of the Totenkopf division (a unit history )
1)Although German winter clothing were sent in sufficient quantity,they arrived much to late :I do not agree with much to late:IMHO,the winter clothing arrived before the real cold in january.
2)Through the winter,frostbite never reached the point of causing a marked decrease in the troops combat strength:IMHO,this is indicating
a) that the troops had winterclothing
b) that the winter was not that cold as is claimed :even winter clothing can not protect against continuous minus 40 temperatures
3)Serious frostbites were very rare :IMHO,this is indicating
a) that the troops had winterclothing
b)that the winter was not that cold as is claimed :with minus 40,a soldier would not loose his toes,he would freeze to death

[Tom Houlihan]

OT Post deleted.

Knock it off.

[julian]

The following are from the post by Ch.Awender on the situation of the Totenkopf division (a unit history )
1)Although German winter clothing were sent in sufficient quantity,they arrived much to late :I do not agree with much to late:IMHO,the winter clothing arrived before the real cold in january.
2)Through the winter,frostbite never reached the point of causing a marked decrease in the troops combat strength:IMHO,this is indicating
a) that the troops had winterclothing
b) that the winter was not that cold as is claimed :even winter clothing can not protect against continuous minus 40 temperatures
3)Serious frostbites were very rare :IMHO,this is indicating
a) that the troops had winterclothing
b)that the winter was not that cold as is claim
ed :with minus 40,a soldier would not loose his toes,he would freeze to death

All this is contrary to what can be read in any unithistory or memoir.
The lack of sufficient winterclothing is welldocumented.

[ljadw]

It is documented in your imagination .