I've been studying up on the "Northern Shoulder" of the Ardennes battle and this fight for the twin villages interests me a great deal.
I've read a number of accounts including the US Army official history but find many inaccuracies. (Tiger tanks seem to abound but the OOBs suggest that there were none anywhere near there).
The amount of artillery brought to bear on the Germans was truly awesome yet they managed to break into the towns with armour and infantry for some crazy fighting. The Americans looked pretty good in this fight (as opposed to some areas of the "Bulge") and I'd like to learn all I can about it.
I'm also interested in the failure of the 12 SS Pz to simply overrun them giving the amount of tanks and pz jager they eventually brought to bear. This was not after all, a particularly well defended or fortified position. I know that mud and weather were a factor of course.
Michael Reynolds suggests that the Germans could have easily made a breakthrough by concentrating south of the villages and criticizes the US official history for a poor description of the road network.
I'd certainly appreciate any and all input to include battle histories, OOBs, details, losses and your opinions.
Hey, this looks like a very interesting topic! I will dig through all my books and try to get some information together by the weekend. I don't have too much time during the week because I am on 12 hour shifts, but I will try to get something by the weekend. I have always been interested in this battle as well!
I just ordered a couple more books on topic as well as reviewing my existing material. I like this battle because it was large enough to be
interesting but still small enough to get into tactical detail.
Reb wrote:Thanks Wolkin. I was hoping you'd show up.
I just ordered a couple more books on topic as well as reviewing my existing material. I like this battle because it was large enough to be
interesting but still small enough to get into tactical detail.
cheers
Reb
Reb, the chapters in Vannoy and Karamales "Against the Panzers" on Krinkelt-Rocherath and Dom Butgenbach are indespensible for understanding what when one there.
"The Key to the Bulge: The Battle of Losheimergraben" by Stephen M. Rusiecki. Might be a bit hard to find but it covers the initial battles by the 99th Infantry Division against the 12.Volksgrenadier.Div and thew 12.SS-Panzer-Div before Krinkelt. This is a great book with lots of detail.
I have a few books that have information on this battle. I will compile as much information as I can and then post it on here. Let's make this thread the same as the old "Goodwood" and "Mortain" threads, eh?
That would be great! I'm reading up on it now. I've ordered a couple additional books but according what some folks have suggested I've missed a few good ones.
Ok, let’s start with an OOB of the main combat units of the opposing forces, units of the U.S. Army and units of the German Heer and Waffen SS in the battle for the Twin Villages of Krinkelt-Rocherath.
- A part (I/SS Panzer Regiment 12) of KG Kuhlmann/ 12th SS Panzer Division Hitlerjugend, which consisted of I/SS Panzer Regiment 12, III/SS Panzergrenadier Regiment 26 (SPW), I/SS Panzerartillerie Regiment 12, the Heer (Not SS as many sources mistake it as!) Schwere Panzerjager Abteilung 560, a Pioniere company and a Flak company. Organized much the same as KG Peiper of the Leibstandarte. Also the same as the Leibstandarte, the Panzer Regiment had re-organized as a one-Abteilung Regiment with only the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 6th Panzer Kompanie. The II/SS Panzer Regiment 12 had stayed at training grounds in Germany with the 2nd, 4th, 7th and 8th Panzer Kompanie.
NOTE: Only the I/SS Panzer Regiment 12 of KG Kuhlmann was involved in the Krinkelt-Rocherath battles. It was redeployed to the Twin Villages to help out KG Muller. The rest of KG Kuhlmann was deployed in the Murringen-Bullingen area Southeast of Wirtzfeld.
-KG Muller/ 12th SS Panzer Division Hitlerjugend, which consisted of SS Panzergrenadier Regiment 25, SS Panzerjager Abteilung 12, a Pioniere company and a Flak company. This KG was deployed to take the Twin Villages of Krinkelt-Rocherath along with the 277th Volksgrenadier Division.
On the U.S. side we have:
-393rd Infantry Regiment/ 99th Infantry Division defending Krinkelt-Rocherath but later redeployed to the Elsenborn Ridge area.
-394th Infantry Regiment/ 99th Infantry Division Southeast of the Twin Villages in the Murringen-Bullingen area but later redeployed to the Elsenborn Ridge area.
-23rd Infantry Regiment/ 2nd Infantry Division, area Southwest of the Twin Villages near Wirtzfeld
-38th Infantry Regiment/ 2nd infantry Division, deployed to area defending Krinkelt-Rocherath.
-Elements of the 9th Infantry Regiment/ 2nd infantry Division, deployed to area defending Krinkelt-Rocherath.
-26th Infantry Regiment/ 1st Infantry Division area Southwest of Wirtzfeld
-741st Tank Battalion, supporting 2nd Infantry Division
-644th Tank Destroyer Battalion (M10), supporting 2nd Infantry Division
-Elements 612th Tank Destroyer Battalion (M18), supporting 2nd Infantry Division
-Elements 801st Tank Destroyer Battalion (Towed), supporting 99th Infantry Division
This should make for a good contribution and a good start for this thread!
I had some lovely pictures in a Zaloga book on tanks in the ardennes that showed a burning panther that had been tagged by a US bazooka team - the guys were marching bloodied German crewman down the road with hands up. (lost book when I sent it to my brother to read and ups left it on the step in the rain)
I'd say from all I've been able to dig up that the US troops that survived should certainly never let a gunner pay for his own drinks again.
Some of the artillery concentrations were really awesome. I'm reading regularly of tanks knocked out by artillery fire which is certainly like hunting flies with a pistol - but seven to ten battalions all shooting up the same map square can apparently get the job done. (Likewise at Dom Butgenbach)
I've noticed that Reynold's account (Men Of Steel) leaves a lot of questions - it seems that 12 SS (and 1 SS for that matter) were not nearly as agile as in Normandy and fought bravely but not particularly
efficiently. Banging one's head against a hornet's nest like the twin villages hardly makes sense when they could have gone around them.
For 12 SS I'm guessing that is the Normandy losses more than anything else - particularly in officers / NCOs. For LAH it seems to have more to do with a certain Herr Mohnke being promoted above his level of competance. (although LAH was mostly replacements too by that time - at least in the fighting arms).
Reb,
I would recommend the privately produced books by my friend Hans Wijers.
He has been able to draw on numerous reports and interviews from veterans in the Northern Shoulder area of the Bulge. Send me a Private message and I will pass on his email address for you.
Best Wishes
Simon
Simon Harrold
WW2 Battlefield Relics: German Erkennungsmarken decoded.
What I've looked at so far and my own analysis of what these
books are worth:
Battle: Story of the Bulge - John Toland - many factual errors but by far the most stirring account of the battle. The man can tell a story. Combine with other books for better detail and less error (written rather a while ago before a lot of things had been nailed down)
Bitter Woods - John Eisenhower - If you can't sleep...
Dark December - Robt Merriam - he thinks Dietrich's stupididy and Otto
Remer's inexperience (!) lost the battle for the Germans. Way too much of this short book are wasted on von der Heydte and Skorzeny. Not worth much in my opinion.
Blood Dimmed Tide - Gerald Astor - lots of useful first person accounts from the American side (mostly) I liked it enough to give it to my father in law who went into action shortly after the Bulge.
Ardennes: Battle of the Bulge - Hugh M. Cole - loads of detail but rather more factual errors about German equipement than I'd expect. A must read though.
battle of the Bulge - Steven Zaloga - outstanding photos - my personal favorite is a shot of an entire American Armoured Inf bn and the various vehicles. Narrative ok and some nice shots of German armor as well - including one of Americans testing bazookas on an imobilized Tiger II!
A Time for Trumpets - Charles McDonald - pretty good with more emphasis on research viz the Germans - still found errors though. He uses anecdotes that Toland and Astor kindly gave him from interviews for their books that didn't make it to their narratives, which makes it very fresh to my mind. Interesting look at the allied intelligence failure as well.
Men of Steel - Michael Reynolds - from the perspective of I SS Pz Korps. Very good - lots of detail. Like his other books though he doesn't spend a great amount of time on personal anecdotes due to lack of space.
Each of these books describes the battle for the twin villages. Reynolds seems the most factual so far from German perspective which is not surprising. Toland's is most gripping but he misses too many times on detail eg A soldier destroys a Tiger tank (which wasn't there in the first place) with rifle grenade. Incident actually happened but it was a panther and a bazooka. McDonald goes into lots of detail and very well - his own infantry company of 2nd US Inf Div was overrun there so he has a clue!
My conclusions so far: The American soldier shined in this one and rarely has artillery been used so well. 12 SS Pz fought bravely but their inexperience seems to be obvious. (they were short nearly half their officers and NCOs). And I have a lot more to learn about this battle which I intend to do thanks to the help of the folks who have been kind enough to post suggestions for additional reading.
