panzer IV versus the sherman of doom

[Rich]

Rich

It worries me to admit this but yeah, quite clear!

I remember reading about M-14 when it came out - designed to replace Garand and BAR. How it did the latter I can't tell - maybe a heavy barrel option like FAL?

If we really want to muddy the waters we could bring up the FG 42 but I'll leave that alone!

Merry Christmas
Reb

Well yeah M-14 was supposed to replace them, but why I've never figured out? It would have been as easy I've always thought, to simply modify the M1 to use a common magazine with the BAR and modify the BAR so it could be used with belted cartridges and have an easily changeable barrel (which FN eventually did and which supposedly Browning - blessed be his name - was contemplating before he died about 30 years earlier). Fundamentally those are the only things wrong with those pieces.

I liked my M-14, I'm blind as a bat but was still able to shoot well with it, fundamentally full-cartridge "battle rifles" are about as accurate as you can get with mass produced arms. But the full auto gag was just that, a joke. Basically any M-14 could be fired full auto, it just required a minor sear adjustment and originally IIRC all were planned with a full auto selector, but eventually it was reduced to one per squad. And it was simply too light to be used as a squad automatic, it wasn't controllable enough and was still restricted to the ammo in the magazine so couldn't sustain fire.

What it comes down to is the Army and especially Ordnance has always been concerned about ammo consumption and fire discipline over infantry firepower, which is why the M-16 can now only fire 3-round bursts or single shots (that sucker was FUN in full auto too, it was light enough and the recoil so negligible that you could practically paint a target with it). Which is why the BAR retained a magazine and non-changeable barrel and why the .30 caliber MGs were a battalion asset (except for the few air-cooled guns, which couldn't sustain fire). Basically the German concept of the squad as a unit to maneuver around a LMG never caught on in the US Army until the SAW appeared and even then it caused a lot of angst.

But isn't it time to creep back to the topic?

[maschinengewehr42]

not so sure bout the chinese using the AK though.

I'm not entirely clear what you mean there, but Chinese manufactured AKs are almost as common worldwide as Russian ones, and have been since the 1960s.

[Dragunov]

i don't really see the Chinese forces still using the 47 though. but what do i know?


go ahead and bring up the FG- i'm cool with that.

[maschinengewehr42]

I see what you mean. Yes, it's a second line weapon in China now, but for many third world nations it remains their principal infantry rifle. Still millions in service around the world. It's not sophisticated, but it does the job, and it's cheap and reliable.

[phylo_roadking]

Better than cheap - free! The majority of AKs in sub-saharan/central and southern Africa from the early '60s on were after all "free" in the sense that they were "aid" from Russia via Cuba, or from China, to aid the Revolution and the growth of the Third International abroad.

A cynic might wonder why there's poverty and famine in Africa today when all those thens of thousands of tons of "agricultural equipment" and "fertiliser" were brought into the continent....

[Dragunov]

of course they would wonder! plants grow faster when there are AK-47s in the ground! them cheap soviet stuff can do wonders!!!

and the AK is also a symbol of manhood in Africa- boys become men when they can play with explosives.
'Kalash' (guess where that one came from?) is also a male name in some African countries.
a country in africa has the '47 on its coat of arms.

[Reb]

It used to break my heart to see the militias marching in Africa. Kids barely in their teens - guns in their hands, empty eyes and no future...

Much as I love the AK it is a hateful symbol of the worst, most murderous system the devil ever tricked us into embracing: communism.

What destroyed Africa was summed up by country Joe McDonald in his counter culture crtique of Maoism (Not so Sweet Martha Lorraine)

"Its a shame and a pity you were raised, up in the city
and you never, learned nothin' 'bout country ways!"

Mugabe created an articifial proletariat in Zim by forcing the country people into the cities - destroying his people's self sufficiency and leading (along with confiscation of white farmer's land) to widescale famine.

Communism - just say no!

Happy New Year
Reb

[Dragunov]

Communism - just say no!

y'mean like drugs and ciggies? DON'T DO COMMUNISM, KIDS!!!


btw, do you have a AK above your fireplace, Reb?

[Reb]

Draganov

In my office I have a samurai sword but over the fireplace I have a dead terrorist - stuffed of course.

cheers
Reb

[Commissar D, the Evil]

DON'T DO COMMUNISM, KIDS!!!

You've got to be kidding! None of the problems in Africa today are due to Communism. Indeed, the world today is fairly devoid of Communism.

More to the point, the AK-47 is the weapon of the powerless, the weapon of the guy who can't call in air-strikes. It is indeed, the "People's Weapon".

Best,
~D, the EviL

[phylo_roadking]

Dave, are you kidding? A lot of Africa is still riddled with SOME form of Marxist-Leninism, either adulterated by ruling parties or by large opposition thousands-of-miles-of-bush-controlling parties.....or does this NOT count because Communism has never really been tried in its purity anywhere?

[Reb]

Communism is the justification many of the tin horn dictators of the world use to excuse their excesses.

Mugabe comes to mind immediately.

In the west the terrs in Rhodesia were portrayed as idealist nationalist freedom fighters. My eyes told me they were communist butchers with a soupcon of tribalism and a dreadful penchant to use voodoo against the villagers.

But what do I know? The media and Jimmy Carter are obviously smarter than me.

The fact that Communism lives on is obvious in one very startling fact - no media - not in Europe, not in the USA, every says anything bad about it. You can (and better) condemn the nazis all day long. But God forbid you should say anything about the commies who after all, are just progressives.

We used to say that a communist is a socialist in a country where they've confiscated the guns.

cheers
Reb

[phylo_roadking]

Reb, thats for a VERY simple reason. The US WON the Cold War, courtesy of the brains of two of my favourite scifi authors. Its inconceivable that there is STILL Communism about in the world as the US won the "war". History is all nice and neat and packaged in the US media, you have winners - always the US - and loosers - and NEVER a situation thats left hanging or questionable...let alone made WORSE by US involvement LOL oh no you can't have that at all!

[phylo_roadking]

um....then what do they call CUBA???