December 1944 - Equipment left by KG Peiper in La Gleize

[Christian]

Hi,

I am looking for a detailed account of the equipment left behind by KG Peiper after the unit escaped out of La Gleize during the night 23-24 December 1944. I understand that the total was about 135 vehicles.
Has anybody come across some primary source material that lists the equipment (AAR, etc.)?
Thanks in advance.

Christian

[Wolfkin]

Heehee...deja vu! I'll just say the same thing!

Hey Christian!

Just going from memory, apparently Kamfgruppe Peiper abandoned about 25 Panzers and 50 SPW's in La Gleize. Add the number of vehicles in the other areas North of the Ambleve River and it totals about 45 Panzers and 60 SPW's. This includes Tiger II of the attached sSSPzAbt 501.

I will have to check all my books to give a more accurate answer. I will post again in a day or two. Someone might post before then but then you might have a few answers to cross-reference. I notice that some sources might give conflicting numbers. We'll see. Gotta do some digging.

Cheers,

Wolfkin

[Simon H]

Gregoires booklet "Kampfgruppe Peiper", produced in collaboration with the La Gleize museum talks about 135 vehicles. I don't have the book in front of me, but it does give a breakdown of what was left where. The numbers of course include several captured USA vehicles (trucks/Ambulances/jeeps) picked up in places like Büllingen/Honsfeld.

[Juha Hujanen]

The Leibstandarte IV/2 says that equipment lost in La Gleize were:35 panzers(IV and VI),2 batteries and 60 SPW.Of these still operational at the close of the fighting:3 panzers,2 guns and 5 SPW.

Regards Juha

[Wolfkin]

Hey Christian!

I found some information that should help. This comes from the book Hitler's Last Gamble by Trevor Dupuy. I have The Leibstandarte Volumes III, IV/1 and IV/2 by Lehmann and Tiemann, but I haven't had a chance to read them yet since I bought them.

So, on page 174 of Hitler's Last Gamble, it says that Kampfgruppe Peiper abandoned in the area of Stoumont-La Gleize: 7 Tiger II, 50 medium tanks (Panther and PzKpfw IV), 3 anti-aircraft tanks (not sure which type of flakpanzer), 70 halftracks (SPW), numerous 20mm FLAK vehicles (does not specify), a dozen 75mm assault guns and tank destroyers, a dozen SP 105mm and 150mm howitzers and dozens of other vehicles.

I am curious as to some of these such as the 75mm assault guns and tank destroyers. I know that Kampfgruppe Peiper consisted of the I/1st SS Panzer Regiment, sSSPzAbt 501, III/2nd SS Panzergrenadier Regiment, II/1st SS Panzer Artillerie Regiment and Flak and Pioneer Kompanie.

So, my guess is that these vehicles, which I am guessing are Jagdpanzer IV/70 and not assault guns, are part of Kampfgruppe Hansen which included the 1st SS Panzerjager Abteilung. I know that Kampfgruppe Hansen tried several times to break through to Kampfgruppe Peiper and I believe that a few of their vehicles might have managed to join Peiper's force perhaps in the Stavelot or Wanne area.

I am sure as soon as I read my Leibstandarte Volumes, that I will get a better picture of events but this is what I assume as of now. This is what I could find, for now, I can still skim through a few more books.

Cheers,

Wolfkin

P.S. I will post this in both threads to make sure you get this message!

[Simon H]

Hello Christian,
As promised I dug out my copy of G. Gregoires book. In it they list the following as being in La Gleize & it's envoirons. The * by the item is because the identity of the vehicle is my own hypothesis. You will also note that the list of SPW does not identify whether they are Sdkfz 250 or 251. Hope this helps!!

Cheneux-Monceau
4 x SPW
1 x Panther G
2 x 75mm Pak
1 x Maultier
1 x US Ambulance (presumably Dodge)*
2 x Ketten Krad
1 x Type 82 Kubelwagen
1 x Motorcycle


Neufmoulin
3 x SPW

Stoumont Railway Station area
3 x Panther G
3 x SPW
1 x Ambulance lorry (of French manufacture)

Stoumont
2 x Panther G
3 x SPW
1 x Wirbelwind
1 x 75mm Pak

Froidcour
1 x Pak
1 x VW166 - left in route de Ste Anne.

La Gleize
47 x SPW
7 x Panzer IV
12 x Panther G
1 x Panther H
6 x King Tigers
6 x 15cm "Bison"
3 x Puma Armoured Cars
1 x Zugmaschine 12T mounting Flak (Half Track)
2 x Zugmaschine 3T (Half Track)
4 x 120mm Mortars (of Russian origin)
1 x Wirbelwind
1 x Steyr 1500 Maintainence truck
1 x VW166
1 x Kettenkrad
1 x BMW motorcycle
3 x Steyr 1500a trucks
1 x 75mm Pak
1 x Portable Flak Gun (possibly a 20mm on a trailer)*
1 x Jeep
1 x Dodge Weapons Carrier
1 x Dodge Ambulance
1 x Unidentified lorry

Coo
Tiger 332 (Which I'm sure you are well aware of it's history and present location)

[Christian]

n/t

[Wolfkin]

No problem Christian!

Very good post Simon!

Cheers,

Wolfkin

[Timo]

I am curious as to some of these such as the 75mm assault guns and tank destroyers. I know that Kampfgruppe Peiper consisted of the I/1st SS Panzer Regiment, sSSPzAbt 501, III/2nd SS Panzergrenadier Regiment, II/1st SS Panzer Artillerie Regiment and Flak and Pioneer Kompanie.

So, my guess is that these vehicles, which I am guessing are Jagdpanzer IV/70 and not assault guns, are part of Kampfgruppe Hansen which included the 1st SS Panzerjager Abteilung. I know that Kampfgruppe Hansen tried several times to break through to Kampfgruppe Peiper and I believe that a few of their vehicles might have managed to join Peiper's force perhaps in the Stavelot or Wanne area.

Sorry Jon, but that makes no sense. No KG Hansen armor reached the northern bank of the Amblève because the Jagdpanzer IV/70, the first vehicle which tried to cross the river at Petit-Spai, crashed through the bridge, thus blocking the passage for the others. Grenadiers on foot managed to cross the wrecked bridge and moved towards La Gleize, only to be stopped by American troops near Petit-Coo. Attempt to force a way to La Gleize failed and as 82nd Airborne denied crossing for Hansen at Trois-Ponts, the alternative route was blocked too. Thus no Jagdpanzers or similar vehicles made it to La Gleize - Stoumont.
Also, Wanne, were Hansen indeed passed on his way to Petit-Spai, is on the southern bank of the Amblève, not in the La Gleize area. Peiper and his men were never there prior to their retreat to the southern bank, but by that time they had allready left all equipment in the La Gleize area and arrived on foot. Same with Stavelot, Hansens armor was never there. Equipment left behind in Stavelot is not listed as left in the La Gleize area.

As you can see in the detailed list above, which gives the equipment left behind by LSSAH in the La Gleize area, the mysterious assault guns are not listed.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Timo

[Simon H]

As you can see in the detailed list above, which gives the equipment left behind by LSSAH in the La Gleize area, the mysterious assault guns are not listed.
Regards,
Timo

Possibly some confusion amounting from "assault guns" and those "Bison" left in La Gleize?