Plan Z

German Kriegsmarine 1935-1945.

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Plan Z

Postby Bellerophon » Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:06 am

Could anyone give me any details of "Plan Z" such as number of planned ships and their type or point me to any websites regarding this topic?
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Re: Plan Z

Postby Tiornu » Tue Apr 15, 2003 1:38 pm

The Z Plan went through several related versions. See if this URL works:
http://www.german-navy.de/marine_main.htm#zplan
And this one:
http://home.t-online.de/home/jgust/index.htm
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Postby Bellerophon » Fri Apr 18, 2003 1:13 pm

Thanks Tiornu, can anyone recommend any books or articles on the topic or post any details here?
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Re: Plan Z

Postby nebelwerferXXX » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:21 am

Bellerophon wrote:Could anyone give me any details of "Plan Z" such as number of planned ships and their type or point me to any websites regarding this topic?


German 'Z-Plan'
(a) Six battleships of 56,000 tons;
(b) Two battleships (Bismarck and Tirpitz) of 42,000 tons;
(c) Three pocket-battleships of 31,000 tons, mounting 15-inch guns, with Scharnhorst and Gneisenau
converted from 11-inch to 15-inch;
(d) Three pocket-battleships (Deutschland, Admiral Scheer, Graf Spee);
(e) Two aircraft-carriers (Graf Zeppelin, launched in 1938, plus one other);
(f) Five heavy cruisers (Hipper, Blucher, Prinz Eugen, Seydlitz, Lutzow);
(g) Forty-four light cruisers (of which six were already completed);
(h) Sixty-eight destroyers and ninety torpedo-boats;
(i) Some 249 U-boats-coastal, sea-going, and ocean-going.

source:
Hitler's high sea fleet...Richard Humble
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Re: Plan Z

Postby nebelwerferXXX » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:33 am

Research Study on Comparative German 'Z-Plan'

Battleships 1919-77
---6 battleships to be ready by 1944
---8 heavy cruisers, 4 by 1943 plus 4 by 1944
---4 aircraft carriers, 2 by 1941 plus 2 by 1947
---223 submarines, 128 by 1943 plus 95 by 1947
___________________
Total: 241 ships

German Weapons of World War II
---8 battleships
---5 battle-cruisers
---4 aircraft carriers
---8 heavy cruisers
---68 destroyers
---249 submarines
___________________
Total: 342 ships

plan deployment:
2 surface action groups with 1 carrier and 4/5 battleships each

Encyclopedia of World War II
---6 battleships
---8 heavy cruisers
---17 light cruisers
---4 aircraft carriers
---223 U-boats
___________________
Total: 258 ships
nebelwerferXXX
 

Re: Plan Z

Postby nebelwerferXXX » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:26 am

GERMAN Z PLAN OF 1939 -
8 Battleships, 2 Aircraft Carriers, 5 Battle cruisers, 3 Pocket Battleships, 5 Heavy Cruisers, 23 Light Cruisers and 68 Destroyers

Description - GERMAN Z PLAN OF 1939 In the months before the outbreak of the Second World War, Grand Admiral Raeder, head of the German Kriegsmarine, submitted a plan for the expansion of the German Navy to be ready for war by 1944/1945. This plan was submitted to Hitler at the regular Fuehrer conferences on Naval Affairs, and the initial plans were rejected by him. However, as time went by an outline was finally accepted, although the exact numbers of each class and type of ship varied from time to time. For this reason many of the references to the Z Plan in English sources quote very different numbers of vessels – this does not necessarily mean that they are “wrong”, merely that they are looking at the plan as proposed at different times. Whilst the plan was specific in the classes of the larger vessels involved, it was always envisaged that light cruiser and destroyer classes would evolve as the plan progressed. To this end we have made two assumptions, namely that the additional 6 scout cruisers would take the form of the Spahkreuzers laid down in 1941, and that the 68 destroyers would follow the form of the 56 destroyers built, laid down or ordered for the Navy, Z-1 to Z-56, and that the remaining 12 destroyers would have followed the design of the 1945 destroyer project. No numbers were ever allocated to the 1945 destroyers and it may well be that a more modest design would have prevailed by the time they were laid down. Finally, we have avoided including Battleships of the late war projects, H-41 to H-44 as although the H class were likely to have been completed to the slightly better armoured, and thus slower, H-41 design, the later variants were simply design projects not realistic building plans. Prior to being launched, German warships were not named, but referred to as, in the case of Bismark, Battleship F. We therefore do not know the names of any of the ships not launched, though Peter Strasser has been suggested for Aircraft Carrier “B”. The names Friedrich Der Grosse and Grossedeutschland for Battleships H and J (The letter I is not used) appears to be mere speculation on the part of British sources, and the latter would appear most unlikely in view of the renaming of the Pocket Battleship Deutschland as the Lutzow. After Z-22, the Kriegsmarine reverted to their earlier custom of not naming vessels smaller than light cruisers and even Z-1 to Z-22 were usually referred to by their Zerstorer number.
Contents:-

8 Battleships:
---N3102 x 1
---N3102A x 1
---N3101 x 6

5 Battlecruisers:
---N3152 b x 2
---N3151 x 3

2 Aircraft Carriers:
---N3201 x 2

3 “Pocket” Battleships:
---N3153 x 1
---N3153B x 2

5 Heavy Cruisers:
---N3301 x 3
---N3302 x 2

23 Light Cruisers:
---N3308 x 1
---N3309 x 1
---N33011 x 1
---N3310 x 3
---N3307A x 11
---N3307 x 6

68 Destroyers:
---N3504 x 16
---N3503 x 6
---N3502 x 17
---N3502C x 1
---N3502D x 1
---N3501 x 5
---N3501A x 5
---N3500A x 5
---N3500 x 12
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Re: Plan Z

Postby nebelwerferXXX » Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:14 am

What's more ambitious, the German 'Z-Plan' or the Spanish 'Z-Plan'?
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Re: Plan Z

Postby lwd » Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:40 am

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
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Re: Plan Z

Postby nebelwerferXXX » Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:28 pm

lwd wrote:How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?


Seven Angels...
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Re: Plan Z

Postby nebelwerferXXX » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:57 pm

Why was it that their were 3 different versions of the number of ships in the German Z-plan? Thanks!
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Re: Plan Z

Postby lwd » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:26 am

Plans evolve over time. The numbers will change as they are presented to various levels of managment and revisions/additions/corrections are aplied. Errors also can creep in if the quoteing or copying is not done carefully enough. Another reason that numbers need to be sourced is so such things can be reconciled.
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Re: Plan Z

Postby nebelwerferXXX » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:49 am

Plan Z ships:

Capital ships:
---8 battleships
---5 battle-cruisers
---4 aircraft carriers
___________________
Total: 9 ships

Smaller ships:
---8 heavy cruisers
---68 destroyers
---249 submarines
___________________
Total: 325 ships
nebelwerferXXX
 

Planned Total Tonnage

Postby nebelwerferXXX » Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:12 am

Planned Total tonnage: Plan Z

CAPITAL SHIPS:
(a) Six x 56,000-ton battleships...336,000 tons
(b) Two x 42,000-ton battleships...84,000 tons
(c) Three x 32,000-ton battle-cruisers...96,000 tons
(d) Three x 12,000-ton pocket-battleships...36,000 tons
(e) Four x 30,000-ton aircraft-carriers...120,000 tons

SMALLER SHIPS:
(f) Five x 10,000-ton '8-inch gun' heavy cruisers...50,000 tons
(g) 44 x 10,000-ton '6-inch gun' light cruisers...440,000 tons
(h) 68 x 2,500-ton destroyers...170,000 tons
(i) 90 x 800-ton torpedo-boats...72,000 tons
(j) 249 x 750-ton U-boats...186,750 tons
_________________________________________________
T O T A L : 1,590,750 tons of construction shipbuilding materials

note: All weights were standard displacement

sources:
Hitler's high sea fleet
Encyclopedia of World War II
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Re: Plan Z

Postby lwd » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:39 am

Why make the exact same post in two seperate threads?
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Re: Plan Z at Feldgrau and AHF

Postby nebelwerferXXX » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:37 pm

lwd wrote:Why make the exact same post in two separate threads?


Because both threads have the same topic 'Plan Z', it's only that, that the other one is from AHF. What's wrong with that? Ask the same question to Bellerophon? The creator of Plan Z in Feldgrau...Why make the exact same topic in two separate threads?
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