Kreigsmarine U-boats and Nazi-Soviet Pact

German Kriegsmarine 1935-1945.

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Kreigsmarine U-boats and Nazi-Soviet Pact

Postby alan newark » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:51 pm

Dear All

Some time ago I posted a request for information relating to the collaboration between the Kreigsmarine and the Soviet Navy during the period of the Nazi-Soviet Pact.

I was, and am still, interested in all aspects of that relationship but especially in the berthing and support facilities granted Kreigsmarine U-boats and their supply vessels in Soviet Arctic and Pacific ports and naval bases.

Also of interest would be: (a) info about the inauguration of Nazi-Soviet naval collaboration; about the everyday governmental and High Command policy and practise; and about the end of the collaboration...and (b) personal stories of sailors, commanders and politicians involved in the above collaboration.

Besten..Al:->
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Re: Kreigsmarine U-boats and Nazi-Soviet Pact

Postby haen2 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:15 am

It's KRIEGSMARINE not KREIGSMARINE. !
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Re: Kriegsmarine U-boats and Nazi-Soviet Pact

Postby alan newark » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:39 pm

You are, of course, quite correct. Not a typo but lack of attention. Unforgiveable and I will in future give the correct spelling.

All the more unforgiveable when the particular Feldgrau forum title and assorted books and research I have here have long given the correct spelling of that word and, for example, other words which regularly feature in my researches...e.g. kriegsgefangen / POWs.

Feldgrau has, since its birth, been praised as a centre of excellence and for its attention to detail. Long may that continue. The topic usage title has been changed.

Al:->
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Re: Kreigsmarine U-boats and Nazi-Soviet Pact

Postby haen2 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:05 pm

Thanks Allan.
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Re: Kreigsmarine U-boats and Nazi-Soviet Pact

Postby EricS » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:33 pm

I just checked the books I have concerning the U-boot-war, but couldn't find anything about U-boats in Soviet ports. Also I can't think of a good reason for this kind of cooperation because U-boots where mainly operating in the Atlantic at the beginning of the war and not close to Soviet bases. The only exception was the invasion in Norway, but again I don't see the need of going to a Soviet port during this relatively short operation. U-boats could have used Soviet ports when they started their northern operations when the Soviets joined the Western Allies, because of the convoy's to the Soviet Union and because of the fear of an invasion in Norway. Of course at that time cooperation wasn't possible anymore.

But just because I haven't found any reference to this collaboration, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. This subject sounds interesting, can you tell me where you have found information about this collaboration? Are there any books about it or do you still have nothing (that would make sense because of your request for information)? Currently I'm reading the memoirs of Erich Raeder, if someone writes about this cooperation, he should be the one. I will let you know when I find something.

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Re: Kreigsmarine U-boats and Nazi-Soviet Pact

Postby alan newark » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:43 pm

Hi, Eric

Many thanks for your encouragement and for your thoughtful comments.

I think that I first read of Nazi subs in Soviet ports in the book 'Special Purposes' by the WWII Soviet NKVD chief Pavel Sudoplatov. Or it might have been in Ladislav Farago's Game of the Foxes', a thick book based on Farago's discovery, in a US National Archives attic, of several metal boxes containing the microfilmed archives of the German Abwehr military intelligence agency..

Both books are in storage boxes so I have no way of checking..:->

But the original refeerence suggested that Nazi subs had definitely used Soviet facilities.

I am very widely read on Nazi and Soviet matters and the above reference was and remains the oinly reference I've seen regarding the above scenario.

If you are in any way able to help - Raeder sounds interesting - I would be very grateful.

Bestens and take care

Al:->
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Re: Kreigsmarine U-boats and Nazi-Soviet Pact

Postby EricS » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:03 am

Hi Alan,

Good news: Raeder mentions it, although only briefly. He confirms the excistence of support facilities in the Soviet-Union when he writes about the considerations for the invasion of Norway. He thought that it might have been possible to obtain these facilities in Norway by political negotiations, just as they did with Russia. To quote: 'Ob es möglich sein würde, die Genehmigung zu solchen Stützpunkten politisch auszuhandeln, wie es mit Russland gelungen war, das uns im deutsch-russischen Vertrag einen Liegeplatz in der Murmansk-Bucht zur Verfügung gestellt hatte, war eine offene Frage.' (Grossadmiral Erich Raeder, Mein Leben. Oberbefehlshaber der deutschen Kriegsmarine 1935-1943 (Beltheim-Schnellbach 2009) 400.)

This means that there was one base somewhere at the Murmansk-curve. I hope this information is useful for you, good luck with your research.

Eric
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Re: Kreigsmarine U-boats and Nazi-Soviet Pact

Postby EricS » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:47 pm

Raeder didn't wrote chronologically, so in the chapter Unternehmen Barbarossa he writes a bit more on the Soviet bases. This time it's a bit to much to quote (about 2/3 page) so I will paraphrase it for you. Send me a PM for more details.

Reader writes that the port of Polarnoje on the Murmansk-coast was useful at the start of the war for returning merchants who tried to run around the British blockade by going far north near the ice fields and into big storms, because they could repair storm damage and stock supplies. One example of this was the ship 'Bremen'. The Auxiliary Cruiser 'ship 45' also used this port in august 1940 on her trip to the pacific. After the conquest of Norway these harbors weren't necessary anymore, after which Raeder 'thanked the Russian Chief of Staff for their support'.
Also the Russian navy wasn't always that helpful; I'm having some trouble translating the right meaning of the sentence, but I think the Russians were trying to obtain facilities in the Baltic States. But because of the importance of this pact the Germans, they didn't made a problem about that and always delivered their supplies to the Russians as was agreed of in the pact.

This information can be found on page 433-434 in the aforementioned book.

Eric
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Re: Kreigsmarine U-boats and Nazi-Soviet Pact

Postby alan newark » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:50 am

Dear Eric

Apologies for delay. I had no broadband for a few days.

I see and am extremely grateful for your excerpts from and tranlations of material from the Raeder memoirs. All important and useful. Bless you.

I have found FARAGO'S 'Game of the Foxes'. Its index does not list either Murmansk or the nearby port - Primorye? Primorske? - used by U-boats so am having to check each of 300 or so pages..zzzzzzzz. As soon as I find the info I will post again.

Many thanks for your help. Take care and groetjes.

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Re: Kreigsmarine U-boats and Nazi-Soviet Pact

Postby EricS » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:02 pm

No problem, glad to be of help. When I searched for 'Polarnoje' in Google Maps it suggested 'Polyarny, Moermansk oblast, Rusland'. I think that's the place you're looking for because it's location makes the use by the Germans seem logical and it was a military base for Soviet submarine's in the 1950's. In the satellite view the ships using it right now also look like warships. Can you find this location in the index? Good luck with your search.

'Groetjes' back,

Eric
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Re: Kreigsmarine U-boats and Nazi-Soviet Pact

Postby alan newark » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:05 pm

Hi, Eric

I have the name of that port. Teriberka. Google searches turned up another base..Basis Nord.

I will PM you with extra information.

Best..Alx
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