Kriegsmarine surface action against US Navy in WW2

[panzermahn]

Hello folks

Anyone knew about any Kriegsmarine surface action against US Navy during WW2? I heard there were some destroyer actions off Sicily in 1943 and some E-Boat actions in 1944 but I am not too sure about that.

Also, are there any major engagements between Kriegsmarine capital units and US Navy surface units? I think the US Atlantic fleet during WW2 has less surface ships that the Pacific Fleet.


Many thanks for any help
Panzermahn

[lwd]

Anyone knew about any Kriegsmarine surface action against US Navy during WW2? .... some E-Boat actions in 1944 but I am not too sure about that.

I'm pretty sure some E-boats caught a US force practicing for Normandy in one op and inflicted some pretty signficant casualties. Not sure if the US forces had much in the way of a USN presence however. There were also some E-boat attacks on the Normandy invasion force I beleive but I'm not sure who dealt with them. In the Med most of the action would have been against the Italiians I beleive but there was some vs smaller KM vessesls from what I remember reading. No idea at all how much the USN was involved in this.

Also, are there any major engagements between Kriegsmarine capital units and US Navy surface units? I think the US Atlantic fleet during WW2 has less surface ships that the Pacific Fleet.
...

None that I'm aware of the closest this came was in some of the actions of Norway I believe. Certainly there were more capital ships in the Pacfic fleet. I suspect more smaller units as well but there were considerable number of escorts involved in the Atlantic so I'm not sure how the numbers worked out.

This thread shows where the US BBs were:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 6&t=150413
This one does the same for CVs
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 6&t=149748
This one addresses CVs
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 6&t=149165
And here's one for cruisers:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 6&t=147340

He hasn't posted info on US DDs yet to my knowledge althouth there is one on British DDs. I thought he had similar threads for at least some of the KM vessesls but I'm not finding them.

[lwd]

I just found this thread which addresses one of the incidents I mentioned above:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=66107

[panzermahn]

Hi LWD

Many thanks for your reply. There is one book by Vincent P.O'Hara, US Navy Against the Axis; Surface Combat 1941-1945, ISBN 978-1-59114-650-6 though I think it most likely focus on the Japanese since the Japanese Navy is considered the largest among the Axis..

I would be interested to know if there were any US Navy surface action in the Adriatic Sea, White Sea and the Kara Sea during WW2

Thanks
Panzermahn

[lwd]

Here's a bibliography that looks like it might be useful:
http://www.history.navy.mil/biblio/biblio1/bibli1av.htm
If you identify a US ship of interest this bibliography may help as well:
http://www.history.navy.mil/biblio/biblio2/biblio2g.htm
Here's more on operation Tiger:
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq20-1.htm
Looking at:
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq82-1.htm
Here's what I've found that mentions German or Italian or French involvment in damage or sinking of US surface units (I may have missed some)

USS Rowan (DD-405) sunk after being torpedoed by German motor torpedo boat off Salerno, Italy, 11 September 1943.
PT-509 destroyed by ramming of a German minesweeper in the English Channel, 9 August 1944.
USS LST-314 sunk by German motor torpedo boats off Normandy, France, 9 June 1944.
USS LST-376 sunk by German motor torpedo boats off Normandy, France, 9 June 1944.
USS LST-507 sunk by German motor torpedo boats in Lyme Bay, England, 28 April 1944.
USS LST-531 sunk by German motor torpedo boats in Lyme Bay, England, 28 April 1944.
*** note LCT's don't list a cause - several are sunk in European waters ***
*** LCI's sunk in European waters also don't list a cause ***
USS Partridge (ATO-138) sunk after being torpedoed by German motor torpedo boats off Normandy, France, 11 June 1944.

To give an idea of commitment size from:
http://www.history.navy.mil/library/onl ... istics.htm

9. Peak strength by theater of operations:
European (continental) 49,801 On 30 Nov 1944
North Atlantic (ashore & afloat) 150,046 On 30 Jun 1944
Mediterranean (ashore & afloat) 90,175 on 31 Aug 1944
Pacific (ashore & afloat) 1,366,716 on 31 Aug 1945
CBI (Ceylon, Burma & India) Not available

This mentions the capture of some German minesweepers but doesn't seem to indicate any surface actions:
http://www.history.navy.mil/library/onl ... e_kirk.htm

Lots of interesting info at:
http://www.history.navy.mil/library/onl ... .htm#part1
including:

The first enemy attempts to enter the assault area were made by E-boats or German coastal craft, during the hours of darkness, by approaching close inshore down the Cherbourg Peninsula. These craft were picked up on radar by destroyers in the picket line at ranges of 10 to 12 thousand yards and taken under fire. The enemy always approached at low speed, sometimes stopping when illuminated, but always withdrew in the face of destroyer gunfire. The screen was never penetrated but it is probable that the enemy laid mines on these sorties.

On the night of D plus 3, enemy craft endeavoured to pierce the Screen from approach positions north of the DIXIE Line. These attempts were repulsed. Subsequently, in order to cut off E-Boats which were passing near Pointe de Barfleur, two attack units of S.G.B.s and P.T.s were stationed in MOUNTAIN AREA and were vectored into positions for counter attack by destroyer radar. Although these units made no known kills of enemy E-Boats, their presence and aggressive attitude are considered partly responsible for the fact that no serious threat was made against the Screen.

[Erich]

you might find this of interest :

http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/tiger1.html

E ~

[OHARA]

There were a lot of Kriegsmarine surface actions against the US Navy. Many took place in the Tyrrhenian and Ligurian seas in 1944. On 15 and 17 August 1944 U.S. destroyers encountered and sank German corvettes. On 2 October 1944 a US destroyer fought an inconclusive action against two German torpedo boats and a destroyer. US PT boats sank a German corvette on 3 November 1943. In May and June 1944 PT boats tangled with German corvettes and torpedo boats on five occasions, sinking two corvettes and three torpedo boats. US PT boats supported by destroyer escorts engaged German M class minesweepers off the Channel Islands in August 1944 on three occasions. German minesweepers sank an American sub chaster off Granville, France on 8 March 1945.

Most of my books contain at least some information about these actions, although The German Fleet at War (Naval Institute Press, 2004) has the most. In the Adriatic only the British and French had surface actions against the Germans. There were also several Italian surface actions against the Germans in September 1943. My most recent book, Struggle in the Middle Sea (Naval Institute 2009) covers all of these.

Vince

[panzermahn]

Hi Vince

Apologies for the late reply. Many thanks for your interesting reply. It seems that most of the surface actions involves German destroyers or smaller crafts. Any actions involving Kriegsmarine light cruisers or radar warships?

Panzermahn

[OHARA]

Panzermahn,

There were no actions involving German light cruisers. The largest German warship to square off against a U.S. Navy vessel in a surface action was the destroyer TA32, ex-Italian Premuda, ex-Yugoslavian Dubrovnik. Two Italian light cruisers encountered the American subchaser SC 503 escorting water barges on 4 August 1943. The Italians turned away after three salvos thinking the barges were torpedo boats.

Vince

[panzermahn]

Hi Vince

Many thanks again for your reply. It is interesting to know that there were surface action between Kriegsmarine and the US Navy although I think it's not a well-known topic WW2

Panzermahn