Kormoran wreck found off WA

[Mitch Williamson]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008 ... 190745.htm
Found: the German raider Kormoran
Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has announced the discovery of the wreckage of the German raider Kormoran off the Western Australian coast.
The Finding Sydney Foundation has been searching for the vessel in the hope of finding the location of HMAS Sydney, which was sunk following a battle off the WA coast in November 1941.
The Sydney's entire crew of 645 went down with the ship in the Indian Ocean and its location has been a mystery for 66 years.
The foundation began a 30-day search earlier this month using sonar equipment on the ship Geosounder, about 200 nautical miles off the coast of Shark Bay.
The chairman of the Finding Sydney Foundation Ted Graham says the crew picked up the first sign of the wreckage on Friday evening and confirmed it was the Kormoran later that night.
He says the discovery significantly increases the chances of the Sydney being found.
"I'm very pleased. It gets us halfway to solving where the Sydney is," he said.
"Without finding the Kormoran our job would've been much harder. It's a fantastic step forward."
The crew plans to return to the Geraldton Port this week before going back to further examine the Kormoran.
Mr Rudd says it is a promising outcome which could lead to the discovery of HMAS Sydney.
"Finding the Kormoran is one big step forward," he said.
"Of course that does not mean that the search has yet found the Sydney itself but it does play one significant step closer.
"All of us concerned about this great ship and those of us who are concerned about what happened to the 645 brave souls who went down with her, have all these years been wondering where she lay and what in the end actually happened."
Ean McDonald, who was a Lieutenant Commander onboard HMAS Sydney in 1939, says it is fantastic news, although he is surprised the Kormoran was much further north than his research indicated.
He says the next challenge is to find HMAS Sydney, so the whole story of what happened that day can be pieced together.
"There's always been doubt about the whole action, how was Sydney surprised and sunk by the German raider," he said.
"There are many, many questions that would be presumably resolved when they find the ship and one can only congratulate the Sydney search people."
Federal Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson says the discovery of the Kormoran is significant.
"This is a very important part of Australia's history, not only our naval history but it's an important part of Australia's story of naval service," he said.
"There are many Australians whose lives and families were changed by this particular ship."

Pass the news on!

Best Wishes
Mitch

[hubertus]

It seems the Kormoran was so hard to find????? when Theodor Detmers told the Australians back in 1942 his ship was sunk at 111'E. 26'34.S.


Hubertus.

[phylo_roadking]

Hubertus, the Kormoran was actually found at 111° 04' 27.5" E - which I believe was a 200-mile displacement from the actual original "location" in real terms, hence the time it's taken to find.

[sniper1shot]

Apparently HMAS Sydney has been found?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008 ... 190983.htm

No details are given on the wreck.

[phylo_roadking]

Be interesting to see if they actually have. One of the stories I viewed yesterday said they had found the Kormoran - and the battle site. Ther must have been a LOT of debris around to mark out the "battle site". The question will NOW be - quite literally, how much of EACH ship is debris?

[German Born]

I bow my head in honour of the fallen sailors from both the HMAS "Sydney" and the German raider "Hilfskeuzer" who tragically lost their lives at sea.I can only hope this find can try to bring some kind of closure to the relatives of these fine men.

[Mitch Williamson]

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has confirmed searchers have found the wreck of HMAS Sydney off the West Australian coast, solving Australia's greatest naval mystery.

The Sydney sunk in November 1941 after a battle with the German raider the Kormoran, killing all 645 crew on board.

This morning searchers from the Finding Sydney Foundation confirmed they had found the wreckage of the Sydney, less than 24 hours after finding the wreckage of the Kormoran.

The Kormoran was found about 100 nautical miles off Steep Point, more than two kilometres below the ocean's surface, and the Sydney was found just 10 nautical miles west.

The Australian ship is more than two kilometres below the surface of the sea but the Finding Sydney Foundation says it is upright and largely intact.

The location of the Sydney tallies with eye witness reports from German sailors who survived the sinking of the Kormoran.

Mr Rudd says interim protection declarations will be put in place for both vessels and has stressed that they are both war graves.

"The Australian Government hopes that the discovery of HMAS Sydney brings some closure to the families of the 645 Defence Force personnel who lost their lives bravely in this naval action in World War II," he said.

Les Dwyer from the Naval Association of Australia says Australia's most enduring naval mystery has been solved.

"This is without doubt, in terms of the Navy and our history, the most significant find ever," he said.

The daughter of a crewman of the ship has called for a judicial inquiry into the circumstances that led to its disappearance.

Barbara Craill was six years old when her father Walter Freer - an anti-aircraft gunner - went down with the ship.

She says the discovery will bring one chapter of a long mystery to a close but there are still many pieces to the puzzle that can only be revealed by an inquiry.

"I feel there should be definitely an inquiry," she said.

"Not the sort of inquiry we had to find out nine years ago, but a judicial inquiry. Because there are things that should be brought out. I mean surely we are adult enough to know that not all was well."

Bob Honour was just four when the Sydney sunk, killing his father.

He says his only solid memory of his father is when he was leaving to board the Sydney.

"A Navy man, the white hat on, the white silk scarf, for some unknown reason I know that it was a white silk scarf, a long blue Navy overcoat, and our kitbag, walking away from our house," he said.

Best Wishes
Mitch

[sniper1shot]

The daughter of a crewman of the ship has called for a judicial inquiry into the circumstances that led to its disappearance

Now why does she want this? The 2 ships went into battle and both sank each other....."Mexican Standoff". No one "won".
They found the ships.....both are War Graves....let the dead rest.
The captain of the Kormoran was cleared of any wrong doing as it was a battle.

What good can come out of this.

[JägerMarty]

I agree mate, I think there's a bit of concern about proportioning blame on the Sydneys captain, ie why did he let his guard down getting so close etc?
And having no survivors to confirm the German account doesn't help their anguish. An enquiry won't serve much purpose, as said both ships were destroyed with huge loss of life. Surely they cannot add much to this?

[phylo_roadking]

There's the whole issue of why there were apparently no survivors (though there may have been at least one body later recovered) from the Sydney, when it was last seen on fire and down by the head, but only taking water very slowly. Thus - what happened between this last visual sighting by the Kormoran survivors, and the Sydney actually sinking, that precluded any order to abandon ship or which perhaps suddenly ended the Sydney's career. Signs of a final catastrophic explosion - if any - should be visible, beyond the original battle damage recounted by the Kormoran's crew.

[JägerMarty]

Reports elsewhere mention the wreck is upright and complete. Complete apart from the missing bow section that appears to have broken off.
May explain a quick sinking with crew not being able to lower lifeboats?
They reckon about 25m of bow is missing, prob from torpedo damage

[German Born]

Reports elsewhere mention the wreck is upright and complete. Complete apart from the missing bow section that appears to have broken off.
May explain a quick sinking with crew not being able to lower lifeboats?
They reckon about 25m of bow is missing, prob from torpedo damage

Probably Torpedo damage?Where from?

[phylo_roadking]

From the Kormoran

6 x 5.9 inch (150 mm) guns, 2 x 37 mm anti-tank guns, 5 x 20 mm FlaK anti-aircraft guns, 2 x twin 533 mm (21 inch) torpedo batteries above the waterline; two single tubes below, 390 mines

[sniper1shot]

I have read the story of the Kormoran (awesome) and they waited until the HMAS Sydney was fairly close and fired of their guns (where they couldn't miss) and what have you. I can not remember anything about a torpedo hitting the ship though. It was read awhile back so I could be wrong on this.

Could the front of the ship not broken off when it hit the sea bed??
The Kormoran might of actually survived this encounter is a shell had not hit the mines at the back of the ship.

[German Born]

From the Kormoran

6 x 5.9 inch (150 mm) guns, 2 x 37 mm anti-tank guns, 5 x 20 mm FlaK anti-aircraft guns, 2 x twin 533 mm (21 inch) torpedo batteries a

bove the waterline; two single tubes below, 390 mines

As most incidents which involve the americans there is usually a conspiracy theory attached.This is one such incident and the possibility of maybe a 3rd party apart from the HMAS Sydney and the Kormoran is being investigated as this article is written.The findings of the investigation will most probably throw all educated guesses right out the window mate.Did Germany need to disguise their cruisers in 1941?