How many German Carriers were originally planned? I have read of only the Graf Zeppelin and the Sedylidtz. Why did they not complete the carrier program? Did the German Admiralty not realize that the day of the battleship had passed and that carrier warfare was the future? Did the success of Pearl Harbor help the cause for carriers in the Kriegsmarine?
I read somewhere that the Luftwaffe wanted to control the air arm of the carrier. Was the politcal infighting between the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe the reason the carrier program failed?
I am very curious about the German carrier program.
German Carriers
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sid guttridge
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I think the problem for the Germans and Italians (who also began but did not complete more than one aircraft carrier) was that the British had a series of unsinkable air bases blocking the deployment of Axis aircraft carriers.
German aircraft carriers could only have been of significant value beyond the range of German shore-based aircraft. However, they were very unlikely to survive long enough to reach these areas, because they would have to run the gauntlet of British shore-based aircraft and the immensely superior Royal Navy to reach them. They then had to survive there and finally run the same gauntlet to get back.
German aircraft carriers had little prospect of survival or success and this was recognised by not wasting resources completing them.
Cheers,
Sid.
German aircraft carriers could only have been of significant value beyond the range of German shore-based aircraft. However, they were very unlikely to survive long enough to reach these areas, because they would have to run the gauntlet of British shore-based aircraft and the immensely superior Royal Navy to reach them. They then had to survive there and finally run the same gauntlet to get back.
German aircraft carriers had little prospect of survival or success and this was recognised by not wasting resources completing them.
Cheers,
Sid.
German carriers
Hi APOTHIS !
Originally there was a second carrier beside the GRAF ZEPPELIN, called carrier B and laid down at Germaniawerft, Kiel, in 1938. It would probably named PETER STRASSER.
The famous Z-Plan called for two more, but smaller carriers after completing the two mentioned above.
Moreover there were plans in may 1942 to rebuilt the following passenger ships into auxiliary carriers:
EUROPA
JADE, ex GNEISENAU
ELBE, ex POTSDAM
Finally the nearly completed cruiser SEYDLITZ was rebuilt as carrier WESER since december 1942. But this was stopped in june 1943.
Also the captured French cruiser DE GRASSE was planned to rebuilt as a carrier in august 1942, but these plans were also stopped in february 1943.
Greetings from Austria
Peter K.
Originally there was a second carrier beside the GRAF ZEPPELIN, called carrier B and laid down at Germaniawerft, Kiel, in 1938. It would probably named PETER STRASSER.
The famous Z-Plan called for two more, but smaller carriers after completing the two mentioned above.
Moreover there were plans in may 1942 to rebuilt the following passenger ships into auxiliary carriers:
EUROPA
JADE, ex GNEISENAU
ELBE, ex POTSDAM
Finally the nearly completed cruiser SEYDLITZ was rebuilt as carrier WESER since december 1942. But this was stopped in june 1943.
Also the captured French cruiser DE GRASSE was planned to rebuilt as a carrier in august 1942, but these plans were also stopped in february 1943.
Greetings from Austria
Peter K.
Thanks Peter and Sid
Was the political dispute between the Luftwaffe and the Kriegsmarine a factor? I watched a special on the History Channel where they commented that Goering and Raedar fought over the air arm which kept Germany from completing the Graf Zeppelin. Was this exaggerrated or was it accurate?
GRAF ZEPPELIN
Hi again!
In my opinion the heavy dispute between the Navy and the AIRFORCE was NO reason for not completing the carrier!
On october 10, 1939, the SKL ordered to stop the builing of carrier B, battleships H and I and also on the cruisers LÜTZOW and SEYDLITZ, but NOT of the GRAF ZEPPELIN, which takes until april 28, 1940!!!
On july 12, 1940 the carrier was towed from Kiel to Gotenhafen and on november 8, 1940, a new discussion started about the completing of the ship. This was ordered by Hitler himself on july 25, 1941.
BTW, on june 16, 1942, the Japanese Navy asked for the GRAF ZEPPELIN to use her under their command in the pacific!!!
The work on the ship was finally stopped on february 2, 1943.
Greetings
Peter K.
In my opinion the heavy dispute between the Navy and the AIRFORCE was NO reason for not completing the carrier!
On october 10, 1939, the SKL ordered to stop the builing of carrier B, battleships H and I and also on the cruisers LÜTZOW and SEYDLITZ, but NOT of the GRAF ZEPPELIN, which takes until april 28, 1940!!!
On july 12, 1940 the carrier was towed from Kiel to Gotenhafen and on november 8, 1940, a new discussion started about the completing of the ship. This was ordered by Hitler himself on july 25, 1941.
BTW, on june 16, 1942, the Japanese Navy asked for the GRAF ZEPPELIN to use her under their command in the pacific!!!
The work on the ship was finally stopped on february 2, 1943.
Greetings
Peter K.
Thanks Peter
A German ship under the command of the Imperial Japanese Navy would have been unusual. How did the Japanese propose the Graf Zeppelin actually making it from Kiel to Japan without being sunk by the Allies?
german antarctica
hi,
wasn't there a German carrier called
the 'Schwabenland'
involved in just-pre WW2
Antarctic exploration?
...peter
wasn't there a German carrier called
the 'Schwabenland'
involved in just-pre WW2
Antarctic exploration?
...peter
Japanese GRAF ZEPPELIN
Hi Apothis!
At the time of the Japanese request for the German carrier GRAF ZEPPELIN on june 16, 1942, it was planned by the SKL to use the ship itself after her completition around the middle of 1943.
In my opinion it would be very, very difficult if not impossible to reach Japanese controlled waters in a nearly operational condition.
I think, this unusual Japanese request for a nearly completed carrier far, far away from their waters was an immediate reaction after the heavy carrier losses at the battle of Midway on june 5, 1942.
Take care
Peter K.
from Austria
At the time of the Japanese request for the German carrier GRAF ZEPPELIN on june 16, 1942, it was planned by the SKL to use the ship itself after her completition around the middle of 1943.
In my opinion it would be very, very difficult if not impossible to reach Japanese controlled waters in a nearly operational condition.
I think, this unusual Japanese request for a nearly completed carrier far, far away from their waters was an immediate reaction after the heavy carrier losses at the battle of Midway on june 5, 1942.
Take care
Peter K.
from Austria
SCHWABENLAND
Hi PETER!
Actually the SCHWABENLAND wasn´t a carrier, but a catapult ship for flying boats, mainly Do Wal and Do18. It was owned like WESTFALEN, OSTMARK and FRIESENLAND by the "Deutsche Lufthansa".
The "Luftwaffe" operated the catapult ships SPERBER, FALKE and BUSSARD.
You are right about that quite well known arctic expedition of the SCHWABENLAND. The ship sailed on december 17, 1938, with two Do Wal´s called PASSAT and BOREAS to photograph the area between 18°E and 11,5° W from the ice to about 78° S. This was done very successful from january 19 until february 4, 1939, with about 11600 pictures! Unfortunately it seems, that the negatives were destroyed during the war.
Please notice, that there is still an area called NEU-SCHWABENLAND at the arctic!
BTW, until today a myth is surounding this expedition ....
http://www.hohle-erde.de/body_neuschwabenland.html
Take care
Peter K.
from Austria
Actually the SCHWABENLAND wasn´t a carrier, but a catapult ship for flying boats, mainly Do Wal and Do18. It was owned like WESTFALEN, OSTMARK and FRIESENLAND by the "Deutsche Lufthansa".
The "Luftwaffe" operated the catapult ships SPERBER, FALKE and BUSSARD.
You are right about that quite well known arctic expedition of the SCHWABENLAND. The ship sailed on december 17, 1938, with two Do Wal´s called PASSAT and BOREAS to photograph the area between 18°E and 11,5° W from the ice to about 78° S. This was done very successful from january 19 until february 4, 1939, with about 11600 pictures! Unfortunately it seems, that the negatives were destroyed during the war.
Please notice, that there is still an area called NEU-SCHWABENLAND at the arctic!
BTW, until today a myth is surounding this expedition ....
http://www.hohle-erde.de/body_neuschwabenland.html
Take care
Peter K.
from Austria
correction ....
Of course, Neuschwabenland is situated in the ANTARTIC, not in the artic!
Peter K.
Peter K.
Thanks once again Peter
You are a wealth of information.
Ted
Ted