Arado Ar 196 vs Fairy Swordfish

German Kriegsmarine 1935-1945.
Tiornu
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Post by Tiornu »

"Can any one show how many instances BB/BC/CA stop to upload seaplanes and how many of those times resulted in disaster for the BB/BC/CA?"
I personally don't know of instances in which a capital ship stopped in enemy-dominated waters to pick up one or two men, so i can't cite any instances in which that led to disaster.
Why didn't the Germans launch Bismarck's Arado from the water?

"The information I have read just stated Tripitz's 196s attacked the attacking albacores without success."
I saw that planes were flown off for ASW patrol and for chasing off the recon plane, but not for intercepting the attack--at least, it was not mentioned.
Tirpitz's planes were all able to fly to land bases after their missions were complete.

"The cause of the ruptured airline to the catapult has only been guessed at."
I won't try to prove a negative, but I don't think you're correct on that one. The compressed air system would have been inspected to find why it wasn't working in hopes of fixing it. I don't know any reason why the torpedo would have damaged the air system.

"I have never heard of any extensions required for the launching of float planes in the Bismarck class ships."
I know there were extensions for the two-plane technique, but I don't know the details. I doubt there was ever a need to use the technique in operational service.
Mark E Horan
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Re: Seaplane use at sea

Post by Mark E Horan »

Gentleman;

I wrote an extensive answer to this question on another forum. Simply put, neither the Kriegsmarine nor the Luftwaffe sent highly trained aircrew on suicide missions. Throughout the entire period of the Bismarck hunt, the sea state was such that no seaplane could conduct water takeoffs or water landings outside a hevily shetered anchorage. Thus, any aircraft catapulted off the (broken) catapult would be lost, likely with the crew as they would have been unable to land safely, had no friendly seaplane base within range, and, even if they did manage to bail out successfully their was only one very ponderous (maneuverability wise) ship nearby in atrocius weather that might, and I emphasize the might, be able to pick them up before they died of exposure. Seaplanes do not make successful (surviveable) crashes, let alone water landings in 20-30' seas!

I say this knowing that two RN FAA aircrews of the four a/c lost by Victorious in her aerial searches managed to pull off successful water landings and survive an extensive period at sea before being picked up by freindly merchants - but both made successful force landings and managed, in one case, to land next to a provisioned lifeboat and in the other, managed to deploy the two rafts they carried and were, in a severe understatement, VERY lucky.

Also, Bismarck was in no position to prepare, and deploy more then one aircraft at atime given the severe sea state. Further, the Arado 196 looks like a fine a/c on paper, but it had serious limitations as an operationa seaplane outside the Baltic. It was very fragile and prone to being badly banged around in even a light sea. It was not very maneuverable, and in the terrible visibility would have been had put to locate the attacking Swordfish which were, after all, using RADAR guidance to make their attacks from above and through the 10/10 cloud cover!

In regards to Tirpitz in her famous bout with the FAA Albacores from Victorious, I can back Tiornu completely. Her Arado 196s went nowhere near the attacking TSRs, whose attack was defeated by the combined 50 knot headwind they were flying into as Tirpitz happened to be racing home directly into a 35 knot wind. In fact, per the extant RAF documents, they barely went near the recon aircraft shadowing Tirpitz as they couldn't climb well enough or catch their targets!

Simply put, the tought that 1 or 2 Arado 196 seaplanes could have broken up either Swordfish attack made on Bismarck is simply ludicrous

Mark E. Horan
Paul Lakowski
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Post by Paul Lakowski »

One of these days some one is going to actually have to present something called 'evidence' to support such claims. God forbid a source might materialise from somewere :roll:
Beershark
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Swordfish (Stringbags)

Post by Beershark »

It has also been said that unmanned Swordfish have taken ( well, lifted into the air ! ) off the decks of fast moving carriers when the Stringbags have not been secured !
Beershark
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