Blücher: A story for the books?

[phylo_roadking]

(Another example being the specification issued for a twin-engined fighter. DeHavillands worked on their Comet international racer but this was turned down by the Ministry....AND the specification withdrawn! However, Dehavilland's continued work on the aircraft as a private venture...and produced what in the end became...the Mosquito!)

[panzermahn]

I am not sure if anyone knew this but the Oskaborg fortress battery guns that sunked the cruiser Bluecher were actually manufactured by Krupp in the 20s

Panzermahn

[phylo_roadking]

1920S? I knew they were Krupps guns, but I thought much earlier, pre-turn of the century? One of the batteries was so old its loading procdeure took something like twenty minutes!

[Mark E Horan]

Gentleman;

The original specification that ultimately resulted in the Blackburn Skua, O.27/34, was issued on 12 December 1934 called for a Fighter-Dive Bomber (FDB) to replace the Hawker Osprey bi-plane in fleet service. It NEVER, at any pint, called for any torpedo carrying ability. In fact, since what it did call for was a monoplane cabable of carrying a single 500-pound bomb, the thought is patently absurd.

It is also worth noting, while the design specifications called for a (1) fighter, (2) Dive Bomber, subsequent documentation clearly indicate that the Royal Navy declared that when conflict occured, attributes necessary for successful dive bombing had priority over attributes for a successful fighter plane. Thus, the specifications as developed were actually for a DBF.

The source for this are the specification documents.

Mark E. Horan

[Simon Orchard]

I am not sure if anyone knew this but the Oskaborg fortress battery guns that sunked the cruiser Bluecher were actually manufactured by Krupp in the 20s

Panzermahn

3 x 28cm Krupp model 1892 but only 2 were used against Blücher.

http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscarsborg_festning

[Mark E Horan]

I thought the following synopsis of Skua operations in Norway, especially those from the air station at Hatston, might be of interest.

Despite steady expansion since September 1939, by the time Norway was invaded the Fleet Air Arm consisted of but twenty first-line squadrons, fourteen Torpedo-Spotter-Reconnaissance (TSR) squadrons and six fighter squadrons: four (800, 801, 803, and 806) operating a combination of Blackburn Skua II fighter-dive bombers and Blackburn Roc turret-fighters, and two (802 and 804) operating Gloster Sea Gladiator biplane fighters.

As fortune would have it only five of the TSR squadrons were actually in the UK. Both 816 and 818 Squadrons were at RNAS Cambeltown (near Greenock) with nine Swordfish TSRs each, ready to embark on HMS Furious when her refit was completed. 815 (Bircham Newton) and 819 Squadrons (Ford) were working up with the RAF’s Coastal Command for ultimate deployment on HMS Illustrious. Finally, 826, operating the new Albacore, was just beginning its working up Ford.

Five of the Fleet's fighter squadrons were also in the UK. Three of the Fleet’s fighter squadrons, 800 (six Skua IIs, three Rocs), 803 (nine Skua IIs, three Rocs), and 804 (twelve Sea Gladiators) had for some time been concentrated at RNAS Hatston (in the Orkneys) defending the Fleet anchorage at Scapa Flow. 801 Squadron (six Skua IIs, three Rocs), earmarked for HMS Furious, was at Evanton (Scotland) working up, while 806 Squadron (eight Skua IIs, four Rocs) was doing likewise at West Freugh in preparation for joining HMS Illustrious.

Unfortunately, with but one of the fleet’s six carriers, HMS Furious, in home waters, most would be limited to operating from land bases for the foreseeable future. Tactically, this was a severe limitation as, other than the Skua fighter-dive bombers, none of the Fleet’s combat aircraft had the range to reach Norway from any base in the UK. Further, while the Skuas could reach the Norwegian coast in the Bergen area, it was at the extreme limit of their range, leaving only a miniscule fuel reserve to get home on after any strike. Thus, the Fleet’s ability to challenge the Luftwaffe over Norway would be greatly inhibited during the critical early phases of the invasion.

During the eleven-day period before the fleet’s two remaining fleet carriers returned home from the Mediterranean, the Skuas conducted a number of operations from Hatston (HMS Sparrowhawk) in the Orkney’s, itemized as follows:

10 April: 800 & 803: 15 Skuas dispatched, 1 lost (with crew). Target: Bergen (warships). Results: Konigsberg sunk.
11 April: no operations. 801 Squadron arrived at Hatston from Evanton.
12 April: 800, 801 & 803: 20 Skuas dispatched, 1 lost (crew okay). Target Bergen (shipping). Results: nil.
13 April: no operations.
14 April: 800 & 803: 15 Skuas dispatched, 1 lost with crew). Target: Bergen (shipping). Results: SS Barenfels (7,569 BRT) sunk.
15 April: no operations.
16 April: 803: 2 Skuas dispatched, no losses. Mission: Armed recon Bergen area. Results: PV Tarantel N.B.19 damaged.
17 April: 800: 2 Skuas dispatched, 1 wrecked (crew okay). Mission: Armed recon Bergen area.. Results: nil.
801& 803: 17 Skua sorties, no losses: Mission: CAP over HMS Suffolk. Claims: 1 kill, 2 damaged, several chased off
18 April: no operations.
19 April: no operations.
20 April: 800 & 801: 6 Skuas dispatched, 1 lost (with crew). Target: Bergen (shipping). Results: nil.

On 21 April all three Skua Squadrons flew aboard the newly arrived carriers HMS Glorious and HMS Ark Royal and, until 9 May, when 806 Squadron became operational and arrived at Hatston, all FAA operations occurred afloat.

9 May: 806 (8 Skuas - 1 wrecked) & 254 RAF (6 Blenheim fighters - 1 lost (with crew)). Target: Bergen (shipping). Results: M.134 sunk.
10 May: no operations.
11 May: 806 (6 Skuas) & 254 RAF (3 Blebheim fighters. Target: Bergen (Oil tanks): Results: Good.
12 May: 806 (6 Skuas) & 254 RAF (3 Blebheim fighters. Target: Bergen (shipping): Results: nil.
13 May: no operations.
14 May: With events in France going badly, 806 Squadron is ordered to prepare to move South to the Channel coast.

During the period afloat from 24 April to 14 June, the Skuas of 800, 801, and 803 Squadrons flew 378 sorties in operations designed to support the fleet or the troops ashore in Norway during which 26 were lost with 11 aircrew killed and 10 captured, most on the disastrous attack on the battleship Scharnhorst in Trondheim harbor on 14 June.

Hope this is of interest.

Mark E. Horan

[Carl Schwamberger]

A story I read about the Bluchers sinking; The former Norwegian commander of the torpedo battery, a Lieutenant who offically retired a few days or week earlier, had heard the evening before some of the rumors about an attack . He went to his former post early that night and took command in the absence of the new officer.

[Hagen von Tronje]

From the stories I heard (being a German that emigrated to Nrway 4 years ago - I heard the stories from dozens of people more than a dozen of times in some variations), the Blücher was actually struck by Whitehead torpedoes, fired from a battery that had not even testfired any torpedo since the 1920's. Quite the opposite of the German high-tech torpedoes of the campaign - simple and, well, working

As a sign of how different the campaign would have gone if the German submarines had less defective torpedoes, just look up how often the Warspite was attacked in the campaign, and always escaped unharmed - at NArvik alone she was fired at by U 25 and U 48, on two seperate occasions by U25 and on one occasion by U 48, always missing or duds. One lucky ship.

Concerning German destroyers, I think one of the main issues were with the later designs which received the dual turret in front, making the ships much heavier and more difficult to handle. That and, of course, the notoriously unreliable engines, same with the Blücher and her sister ships.