Marinestoßkompanie - "Westerplatte" 1939

[Commissar D, the Evil]

Hey Guys, lighten up a little.

Pirx is a fine member of Feldgrau and doesn't deserve a comparison with the late lamented Torquez. As far as I can see, his post was strictly educational and had nothing to do politics. We have to trust that each of us, unless proven otherwise, is only trying to help the other.

So, two fine contributors like Jan-Hendrik and Sid, IMHO, should not be trading insuts on an inoffensive post by Pirx.

Very best,
David

[Tom Houlihan]

Then, too, many cities are referred to by slightly different names in different languages. The easiest one that comes to mind is in Germany. It was quite some time before I understood enough to know that München and Munich are one in the same!

How many cities in Europe originally had Roman names?

[Commissar D, the Evil]

Hi Tom, many, many towns and cities originally had Roman, Carthaginian (those were the Black folks, people) and even Greek names. Heck, as I recall, one of the major Greek-named towns in modern Rumania was "Clarcopolis". And there was a Roman-named town on the Rhine called "Klarcaster", which for several hundred years kept the barbarian Alemanni and Sarmations at bay.

Bestus,
~D, Imperator

[sid guttridge]

Hi Commissar,

I traded no insults. Not one. My point was to stop them. Please re-read my posts.

The Cathaginians were not black, but semitic. They were Phoenecian colonists from what is now Lebanon.

One of the big problems over town names is that they were often not founded by the local rural population but by incomers in order to administer conquered pre-urban populations. That was why there were numerous towns founded by the Germans amongst essentially rural Baltic and Slavic peoples. It is perfectly possible for an urban centre to have been founded by a different population group to that already engaged in agriculture in the area. Indeed, it is an extremely common imperial and colonial phenomenon that is by no means a German peculiarity. The foundation of towns is not necessarily a good indication of priority in a region.

Cheers,

Sid.

[Commissar D, the Evil]

Sid my friend, for an incredibly intelligent person, you take personal criticism far too seriously. My point was simply to stop you and Jan-Hendrik from trading fire over Pirx's post, not to condemn either of you. Lighten up. The forum values both of you and Pirx. So, no insult intended towards any party, just a gentle admonition that not all posts are politically inspired.

I may well be wrong in my interpretation of events, but in either case, Be Well and stand by the basic peaceful premise of the Forum.

Best,
David (by the way, the Phoenecians ruled Carthage, but archaelogical evidence is that many of the citizens were actually Black Africans.)

[sid guttridge]

Hi Commissar,

We all have reputations to defend.

When a moderator, a post that carries some influence, suggests inaccurately on a public forum that I am exchanging insults, when it is patently not the case, I think I am entitled to post a corrective, don't you?

There is no "interpretation of events". It is there in black and white. I exchanged no insults. I was trying to stop them.

As for taking personal criticism far too seriously, have you looked at some of the stuff I regularly let slide? If Feldgrau was a tighter run ship perhaps I wouldn't have to.

Due to slavery (and in the case of Egypt, a period of conquest by the Nubians) there were black people amongst many ancient Mediterranean civilisations, but the civilisations were not theirs. Carthage was clearly a semitic civilisation. We know who founded it, from where and when. The Roman name for the Carthaginians, "Poeni", is their rendition of what we call "Phoenecians".

Cheers,

Sid.

[Commissar D, the Evil]

When a moderator, a post that carries some influence, suggests inaccurately on a public forum that I am exchanging insults, when it is patently not the case, I think I am entitled to post a corrective, don't you?

Clearly, Sid and I don't mind being corrected, especially if the underlying issue goes away. (I'm sort of a utilitarian-type person.....)

Ah, about Carthage, we could have many go-abouts on this one. The city was founded by refugees from Tyre, but it had a long history. Still, I don't want to digress off-topic, so we will leave this for another time.....

Best,
David

[Pirx]

Oksywie indeed had Scandynavian roots. Oxihoved - Ox Head - was a name of the penisula. That name is much older than village. Village was founded in 1214, in 1224 was founded a parish.
Westerplatte is used to this day a German name. Most names in this area has Kashubian roots.

[Domen123]

An interesting episode concerning the defense of Westerplatte in 1939 and the activity of Abwehra in Poland in 1939:

http://odkrywca.pl/mysle-ze-cieawy-tema ... html#67736

Geheimoperation Wicher / Wladyslaw Kozaczuk / Karl Müller
Verlag / 3-86070-803-1 / page 82
"... Außer dem aus politischen Gründen inszenierten
Zwischenfall in Gleiwitz benutzten die Deutschen mehrere
weniger bekanntgewordene Kriegslisten zur Irreführung der
Polen. So wollten sie einzelne Einheiten und Verbände zur
Kapitulation verleiten. Ein solcher Versuch wurde z.B.
durch die geheime Funkaufklärung der Kriegsmarine
unternommen. Ihr war es kurz vor dem Krieg gelungen, einen
von der Besatzung der Westerplatte benutzten polnischen
Marinecode aus vier Buchstaben zu knacken. Am zweiten
Kriegstag funkte die deutsche B-Dienst-Leitstelle in
Swinemünde einen vorgetäuschten Befehl in diesem Code.
Scheinbar von polnischen Militärbehörden ausgegeben,
forderte er die Westerplatte auf, den Widerstand
einzustellen und sich zu ergeben. "Der gewünschte Erfolg
blieb aus", bemerkt der ehemalige Leiter der deutschen
Marine-Funkaufklärung. ..."

It sheds some light on the issue why Sucharski wanted to surrender yet on 02 IX (apart from the fact that yet before the war he had orders to resist for 12 hours).

Because as you probably know, on 02.09.1939 Sucharski was most probably removed from the position of commandant and Cpt. Dabrowski became the factual commander of WTT. On 05.09.1939, when Sucharski "recovered", he could regain his position but still Dabrowski was probably more important and Sucharski wanted to surrender. Sucharski insisted to surrender after the Guardhouse II was destroyed on 07.09.1939, and Dabrowski finally gave up and agreed to surrender.

From the discussion in the link provided above it also seems probable that German intelligence had got their agent among the Westerplatte crew (but not Sucharski).

[tigre]

Thanks Domen . Cheers. Raúl M .

[tigre]

Hello to all ; something more about this...................

Battleship Schleswig Holstein - Danzig 1939.

Source: Fotoalbum Linienschiff Schleswig Holstein 1939 Danzig Westerplatte /Führerbesuch

Cheers. Raúl M .