Naval fighting off Bastia, September 9th 1943

[Lupo Solitario]

I'm looking for number, kind and identification of german naval units sunk in a fighting off Bastia harbour (Corsica) September 9th, 1943. My sources tend to disagree

thanks

Lupo

[Stefan]

Lupo, could you tell me what your information says on this little-known incident? The only thing I have read is that the KM Torpedoboot TA 11 (the former french torpilleur "L'Iphigénie") is said to have been sunk by Italian tanks off Piombino on Sept. 10 after it was immobilized by Italian FAC's the night before (source: MJ Whitley's "Destroyers in WW2").

[Lupo Solitario]

dear Stefan, we 're talking about two different episodes, either part of the chaotical situation following italian surrender.

In the night between September 8th and 9th, 1943, a german force tried to take control of the harbor of Bastia. In this strike, germans didn't reach to conquer the control of defence batteries while italian torpediniera Aliseo reached to leave the harbor and took position to avoid german to exit harbor. At morning, the group of german units exit harbor, finding under fire of italian batteries and of Aliseo. The german flottilia was completely destroyed in an hour and half but I don't find an agree on its composition

Quite similar facts at Piombino: in the same 8/9 night a german naval group failed to take control of local batteries suffering some losses. In first hours of september 10th, german torpediniere TA9 and TA 11 entered Piombino bay. In successive hours, other italian and german units grouped in the bay. After a day of tension, at the evening german opened fire. At the morning of 11th, german forces were forced to retreat after having suffered the loss of the TA11.

At your dispo

Lupo

[Jack Nisley]

Lupo, are you still researching this? I think I know your problem. Rohwer in Chronicle of the War at Sea says TA11 and UJ2203, UJ2205, UJ2214, and UJ2219 sunk by Torpedoboat Aliseo and corvette Cormorano at Bastia 10.9.43. All other references I 've seen say TA11 sunk at Piombino. Have you been able to figure this out?

UJ2203 (ex-Austral)
UJ2205 (ex-Jaques Coeur)
UJ2214 (ex-Vivagel?)
UJ2219 (ex-Insuma)

Jack Nisley

[Enrico Cernuschi]

It was only a mistake. At Bastia Aliseo (Cormorano was too much far and slow to act effectively) sunk UJ 2203 and 2219 and, with the aid of the Regia Marina coastal batteries, the MFP: F 366, 387, 459, 612 and 623 (source Achille Rastelli, Fecia di Cossato, ed. Mursia, Milano, 2001);
UJ 2205 was sunk by the British submarine HMS Unseen on 18 Apr. 1943
UJ 2214 fate is unknow.
TA 11 was lost at Piombino on 11 Sept. 1943 night under the fire of the Italian Navy shore batteries during the very confused, first days after the Italian 8 Sept. 1943 armistice.
Bye EC

[Lupo Solitario]

what I don't understand is why some source tells about nine german units sunk in battle....bah at least we got seven...

Late it should be better tell open that TA11 sunk at Piombino on italian continent far away from Bastia in Corsica cause it seems cause a lot of confusion

thank you all

Lupo

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Ciao Lupo,
just a minor detail. The original Commander Fecia di Cossato proceeding said there was a German motor boat too, perhaps an armed Luftwaffe rescue launch, which was sunk with the other small vessels. I was unable to discover anything about this possible, last unit. A presto EC

[Jack Nisley]

UJ2214 (ex-Clairvoyant) redesignated UJ6075, sunk by HMS Untiring, 27.4.44. As the UJ numbers were assigned to the flotillas, not the specific ships, UJ2214 (ex-Vivigel) may have been sunk or reassigned and replaced by ex Clairvoyant.
Article in Warship magazine about Italian corvettes stated Cormorano sank A/S trawler and two motor rafts (MFPs?) during this time period. If not at Bastia, any ideas where?

Jack Nisley

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Thank you for UJ2214.
I'm afraid that the old Warship study about the "Gabbiano" class you mentioned is not up-to-date.
The Italian corvettes fought, however, some other minor surface actions during these same very days off Elba is.
On 10 sept. 1943 Folaga, sailing from Portoferraio to Bastia, encountered 5 German ferries claiming one sunk and an other damaged.
On the same day Ape sustained another similar and indipendent encounter; she said too to have sung by gunfire a landing craft.
On 13 Sept. 1943, then, Gabbiano and Pellicano had near Montecristo is. (the same, tiny treasure island of Edmond Dantes!) an other clash with 4 German MFP which stranded to avoid more serious damages.

Any piece of news about these minor actions would be welcome. EC

[Peter K.]

Hello @ all !

I could only add, that also according to the war diary of the SKL only 2 sub cashers (UJ2203 and UJ2219) and 5 MFP´s were lost.

What wasn´t mentioned until now is the fact, that also UJ2210 was engaged in this fighting. Despite UJ2210 received a heavy hit it rescued the survivors of the sunken ships.

Moreover I have found one security boat of the airforce called FL.B412, which went to the Mediterranian in 1942/1943 and was probably lost - perhaps the boat you are looking for!

At last, there were two more of these boats, which were lost at Piombino in the night of 10. to 11.09.1943 - FL.B.429 and FL.B.528 - both by Italian AAA.

Greetiungs from Austria
Peter K.

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Dear Peter K,
your letter was a gorgeous one. Now is possible, at least, after 60 years, to explain the many Bastia naval action discrepances (and, as I always stated, not only for this encounter, the original proceedings were right in spite of a legio of post war historians who have got the curious habit to dismiss the original documents as inaccurate, according their own standards).
May you be so kind to give a look at the SKL diaries to estabilish a final word about the following matters?

- German ferry service between Sardinia and Corsica 9 Sept. 1943 - 18 sept. 1943. Any ship losses or damages?

- 10 sept 1943, off Elba Is. encounter R.Corvette Folaga and Ape against 5 German MFP. Idem as above

- 13 Sept. 1943, off Montecristo Is. R, Corvette Gabbiano and Pellicano against some German MFP.

The FL B. 412 may be the last, Bastia misterious loss but just after the Italian Armistice the Regio Esercito seized at Cefalonia a Luftwaffe rescue boat. Not a glorious enterpriese, I agree, but it could be the "412" (or your source give the theatre too, Tyrrenian Sea or Jonio?).

Many thanks for your precious help, sincerely EC

[Peter K.]

Hello !

First I have to make a correction:
The names of the security boats lost at Piombino were FL.B.429 and FL.B.538 and NOT FL.B.528!!! Sorry for the writing error!

Then I made a deeper look into the security boats transferred to the Mediterranian. Here is the first part about the B-class:


class BIV or Seeteufel IV:
all built at Kröger, Warnemünde
37/43 t, 23,54/24,45x4,53x0,98/1,30m, 21,5 kn, 2 MG or 1x2cm, 560 nm at 17 kn and 3,6 t fuel

FL.B.402 - transferred between 08.42 and 09.42, scuttled on 09./10.07.43 at Syracus
FL.B.403 - transferred (date unknown), on 23.12.43 ordered to transfer to the Adriatic, but it is uncertain, if this was really done
FL.B.410 - transferred in 1942, lost on 06.04.43 at Trapani (air attack)
FL.B.412 - transferred in 1942/43, probably lost
FL.B.414 - transferred between 11.42 and 01.43, lost on 11.05.43 at Marsala
FL.B.417 - transferred between 11.42 and 01.43, lost on 13.05.43 at Augusta (air attack)
FL.B.419 - transferred between 11.42 and 01.43, survived the war
FL.B.420 - transferred until 06.42, seemed to survive the war
FL.B.421 - transferred until 06.42, seemed to survive the war
FL.B.422 - transferred in 1943, seemed to survive the war
FL.B.425 - transferred until 06.43 to the Adriatic, renamed in 10.44 as I.V.31 of harbour defence flottilla Venice
FL.B.426 - transferred between 03.41 and 04.41, but in 07.41 transferred to the Black Sea
FL.B.427 - transferred in 11.43, renamed in 10.44 as I.V.32 of harbour defence flottilla Venice
FL.B.428 - transferred between 04.42 and 07.42, lost on 27.02.43 at Syracus (air attack)
FL.B.429 - transferred between 06.42 and 08.42, lost on 10./11.09.43 at Piombino (Italian AAA)
FL.B.431 - transferred between 11.41 and 02.42, lost on 09.08.44, 1335, near Venice (air attack)
FL.B.432 - transferred between 04.42 and 07.42, lost on 28.04.43 by scuttling at Sidi Daoud
FL.B.435 - transferred between 11.41 and 02.42, seemed to survive the war
FL.B.437 - transferred between 11.41 and 02.42, wrecked on 01.11.42 at Tobruk by air attack and scuttled on 30.11.42 between Tobruk and Bengazi
FL.B.439 - transferred between 06.43 and 08.43, lost on 15.06.44 at the bay of Vernazza (beached after air attack, 1 dead)
FL.B.444 - transferred until 06.42, seemed to survive the war

class BV or Seeteufel V:
all built at Kröger, Warnemünde
56/65 t, 26,46/27,59x4,57x1,19/1,49m, 27,9 kn (FL.B.515 29 kn), up to 8x1,5cm or 7x2cm, 580 nm at 26 kn and 5,8 t fuel

FL.B.515 - transferred (date unknown), seemed to survive the war
FL.B.519 - transferred between 11.43 and 02.44, operational on 12.03.45 at the Western Adriatic
FL.B.520 - transferred between 11.43 and 02.44, lost in 1945 at Lignano
FL.B.521 - transferred between 03.44 and 04.44, seemed to survive the war
FL.B.538 - transferred until 02.43, lost on 10./11.09.43 at Piombino (Italian AAA)
FL.B.548 - transferred (date unknown), at the end of 1944 still alive
FL.B.577 - transferred between 06.43 and 08.43 to the Aegean, lost on 08.12.43, 1230, at S. Stefano (air attack)
FL.B.578 - transferred until 02.44, seemed to survive the war
FL.B.581 - transferred until 22.09.43
FL.B.582 - transferred between 10.43 and 02.44 to the Aegean, seemed to survive the war
FL.B.583 - transferred between 10.43 and 02.44 to the Aegean, seemed to survive the war

I´ll try to do the second part about the C-class tomorrow. Moreover I´ll try to answer your specific questions - I´m afraid, there will be some efforts necessary working through the KTB and this will take some time!

Many greetings from Austria
Peter K.

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Dear Peter K,
For God' sake, take it easy and maintain your excellent standard.

Greetings EC

[Peter K.]

Hello ENRICO !

Be sure, that I´ll do it without any stress!
... and thanks for your compliment!

Today I could made a summary about the evacuation of Sardinía with some additional information.

Let´s start:

The evacuation of Sardinia according to the war diary of the SKL:

09.09.43:
The garrison of Maddalena is strengthen by an Italian battalion.
The harbour of Bastia with all Italian ships was occupied early in the morning.
During the day Italian troops opened fire against an own sub casher at Bastia, but also against an enemy submarine.
At Corsica French troops were forced back by Italian battalions.
The transportation of additional troops to Corsica – ready at Livorno – was stopped.
Doubtful message about a shore bombardment of Italian battleships at the strait of Bonifacio.

10.09.43:
At Porto Ferraio own R-boats were taken under fire from coastal batteries, when they want to enter the harbour. Moreover the navy’s wireless station didn’t answer.
At Bastia the Italians started a counterattack, but their ships in the harbour were forced to stay by own forces.
2 of our sub cashers and 5 MFP´s were sunk by Italian destroyers after leaving the harbour of Bastia.
The own ferry traffic at the strait of Bonifacio isn’t hindered by the enemy.
One I-boat (infantry landing craft, pk) was sunk by coastal fire near Palau.
At the afternoon 2 Italian destroyers fired at shore positions near Bonifacio and went through the strait from east to west.
The situation at Maddalena is uncertain.
Own successful activities at Porto Vecchio and Civitavecchia.
At the level of Gaeta there was a fight of 6 MFP´s against 2 fast vessels of the enemy. One of our MFP was sunk.
That should be the unknown action of FOLAGA!
Own mine layers destroyed 2 larger steamers and smaller vessels.
Order of the SKL for German Naval Command Italy that the troop transportation operation from Sardinia to Corsica should have the highest priority.

11.09.43:
The situation at Sardinia is still uncertain, but important positions seemed to be hold.
All movements at Sardinia took place as planned.
With the exception of Bastia the situation at Corsica is calm; there were only minor activities of Italian troops against partisans.
Untouched ferry traffic from Sardinia to Corsica.
According to wireless intelligence the Italians hand over their wireless station at Corsica to the French.
Uncertain situation in the area Piombino – Elba! A torpedo boat at the harbour of Piombino reported several shootings.
Order of the SKL for German Naval Command Italy that also all equipment at Sardinia should be rescued.

12.09.43:
Order of the OKW for the SKL, also to evacuate Corsica.
In the night of 10./11.09.43 Italian motor torpedo boats attacked an own convoy at the harbour of Piombino. 3 of the enemy boats were sunk by TA11, but which was also lost. Moreover a lighter scuttled itself. The survivors managed to escape to Livorno.
R187 and R188 reached Livorno, while R7 and R13 seemed to be lost.
S158 attacked a submarine 2 nm west of Capraja.
SG11 shoot down an aircraft southwest of Capraja.
Bastia is again in the hand of strong Italian forces. It is planned to start a counterattack on 13.09.43.
Untouched ferry traffic from Sardinia to Corsica.

13.09.43:
At Bonifacio the Italian submarines FRANCESO RISMONDO and H6 were captured.
Untouched ferry traffic from Sardinia to Corsica. The following vessels were active: 10 MFP, 7 SF, 3 L-boats and 8 J-boats, strengthen on 13.09.43 by 10 additional MFP´s and KT31. These units were escorted by 4 R-boats and 4 VP-boats.
Operational naval forces: at Livorno TA9, 8 R-boats, 3 sub cashers and SG11; at Civitavecchia 7 S-boats; at Toulon BRANDENBURG and POMMERN; at Maddalena 4 R-boats
Preparations were started for the evacuation of Corsica.
In the east of Corsica several successful battles against French, but also Italian troops.
The attack on Bastia was stopped by the enemy 4 km ahead due to heavy artillery fire.

14.09.43:
Near Sestri Levante the 11. R-flottilla take the aviso CIGNIO, a tug and a logger as prize.
Also near Sestri Levante 2 own tank lighters were lost due to a sub attack.
Night fighter direction ship KRETA transferred from Toulon to Genua.

15.09.43:
Bastia is taken by own forces and the harbour is already used by own vessels. Also the most important batteries and the airport are occupied by MAA616.
The own traffic at the strait of Bonifacio took place as planned, but at 1350 the own ferry traffic was unsuccessfully attacked by 7 Italian aircrafts at the strait of Bonifacio. One attacker was shoot down by a SF.
At midday the steamer CHAMPAGNE, escorted by R189, was attacked by 12 aircrafts north of Elba. 2 attackers were shoot down there.
The Italian commander of Elba offered to surrender.
KT14 entered the harbour of Livorno with Italian prisoners onboard.

16.09.43:
In the evening TA9 and 2 R-boats entered the harbour of Piombino.
SG11 shoot down an aircraft at the harbour entrance of Piombino.
Nearly untouched ferry traffic from Sardinia to Corsica at day and night. On 15.09.43 the following material was transferred: 5594 men, 728 vehicles, 124 artillery guns, 2654 t of supplies.
Maddalena is left from own troops. The coastal batteries are occupied by Italians.
Shipment from Bastia to the continent has restarted.

17.09.43:
The OKW definitely ordered to evacuate Corsica (90. Panzergrenadierdivision, Sturmbrigade Reichsführer SS, fortress battalions).
At 1630 the transportation of the main parts of the 90. Division from Sardinia to Corsica was completed.
At Corsica Bastia, Porto Vecchio and Bonifacio are secured.
In the forenoon TA9, SG11, 4 R-boats and 4 MFP´s with army troops landed at Porto Ferraio and occupied Elba. 1 MAS and 2 Italian torpedo boats, manned by the crew of TA11, sailed for Livorno. 6 steamers of various seize, 1 tug, 3 motor sailing boats and 3 tank lighters were captured.

18.09.43:
At Bonifacio the captured Italian submarines FRANCESCO RIMONDO and H6 were scuttled, because there was no possibility to tow them away.
The last parts of the 90. Division reached Corsica, coming from Sardinia.

19.09.43:
The evacuation of Sardinia is completed nearly without any losses. About 26000 men and over 4000 vehicles were transferred to Corsica, of which about 3000 men were already airlifted to the continent.
Details: 25800 men, 4650 vehicles, 4765 t of supplies, 66 medium ATG, 78 heavy ATG, 12 light infantry guns, 12 heavy infantry guns, 62 tanks, 37 self propeller guns, 23 armoured cars, 23 light field howitzers, 8 heavy field howitzers, 4 10cm guns, 119 8,8cm AAA, 147 2cm AAA, 30 2cm quadruples


Well, we´ll see, what I can do tomorrow!

Good night
Peter K. from Austria

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Dear Peter K,
I said it before, I'll say it again: your researches are excellent and not only because I was looking for these datas since years but as they are very accurate, KM style, I presume.
The recorded succession of news in the SKL diaries is a dramatic one and clearly based upon the various radios which were coming during those busy hours. They are written a day after the rpevious intelligence, a circumstance which explains some anachronism.
The order to send an Italian Battalion to the La Maddalena is. is an interesting one as it confirms that the original plan was to bound there the battle fleet since the first week of Sept.
The order to spot the German ferry of troops since Livorno to Bastia is a clue for the strange, German Bastia night 8-9 Sept. coup de main failed within hours. The German sailors had to act, I presume, in an hurry. The original program had to be (like in so many other places in Italy and abroad) to wait until 9 or 10 Sept. The sudden Radio brodcasting of the Italian Armistice forced the local German Flotilla to act anyway à la grace de Dieu. It could be a success; it was a failure.
The Gaeta action is strange. The Folaga encounter was off Elba. Therìs is too much south. Anglo-american warships? Maybe. What's the right German sentence?
R 7 and 13: Groner wrote Salerno, 9 sept. 1943; I think they were scuttled as unable to sail.
The not clear nature of the order to evacuate Corsica (12 Sept. and, agiain, confirmed, 17 Sept.) confirm: A) Gen. Frido Von Senger und Etterlin, German C-i-C- Corsica, was sincere when he made his deals with his Italian collegue Maglio the nignt between 8-9 Sept. 1943 and the following day B) OKW had lost (Since March 1943) the real control of the various fronts which were ruled by the local commanders until late Sept. 1943, when the final, Stalin's refuse to mantain his feelers at Stockholm confirmed the German Generals that the only way open in front of them was to fight untile the very end hoping in a military miracle (or to put a bomb under Hitler'stable, but this was quite an other matter and a restricted minority choose too).
The avviso Cigno had to be simply an ex merchant ausiliary UJ of the Regia Marina, a yacht I think.
The Italian bomber raid dd 15 Sept. 1943 is a novelty, sources speak about a 16 Sept. attack and confirm one Cant Z 1007 bis lost by ack ack fire. I think the German source is right.
S 158 encountered the Italian Submarine H 2. No damage on both sides
As you see ther's a lot of useful material.

Thank you again,
sincerely EC

P.S. a good screening for the confused nwes about the fate of many small ships like the LW rescue boats you classified two days ago could be the analysis of the last German ships which arrived from Istria to Ancona on 2 May 1945. British sources wrote there were about 30 boats but no exact record is mentioned. Do the SKL diaries arrive until that date? EC