Luftwaffe Flight From Russia to China.

German Luftwaffe 1935-1945.
Lorenz
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Re: Luftwaffe Flight From Russia to China.

Post by Lorenz »

Hi Simon G.,

I am now too old and otherwise occupied to spend time on this anymore, but I certainly encourage you to pursue the fuel drum and plutonium threads back to their point of origin, i.e., when and how they came to be on the island, provided those photos are of Matsuwa. Those drums of fuel could have come from anywhere, either during or after the war, and I may be wrong, but isn't trace plutonium rather common is some strata? As for underground tunnels, the Japanese military kind of dug them everywhere, didn't they? Especially as part of defense fortifications.

Good luck!

Lorenz
Simon_G
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Re: Luftwaffe Flight From Russia to China.

Post by Simon_G »

Thank you for the response Lorenz. My finances are against me going to Matua Island personally, but for anybody wishing to go there i would like to make a plug for the people in Russia who run expeditions each year to that island to explore it's WWII associations.

This is their website and they deserve the patronage of any serious WWII researchers.

Kuriles Tour Travel Company
http://www.kurilstour.ru/english/
or phone/fax +7 (4152) 24-23-59
vareshaga11 (at) mail.ru

Springs on the island bubble up Plutonium which is quite odd since it is generally not a naturally occurring element. The fuel drums are a mystery worthy of some serious consideration since they would not have been flown to that location but cached there by a ship. The very last surface blockade runners reached Japan in January 1944.

Here is a link to their photo gallery on their website so it is not just some scam which I invented:

http://www.kurilstour.ru/islands.shtml?photos
http://www.kurilstour.ru/islands.shtml?photos_past
Simon_G
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Re: Luftwaffe Flight From Russia to China.

Post by Simon_G »

Further to earlier questions raised about the conflicting figures about the Ju-390, details of the Ju-390 performance as certified by October 1943 were related to the Japanese and decrypted from a MAGIC intercept as follows:

Image

With a new take off weight certification and more fuel economic BMW-801E engines from April 1944 these figures would have changed again.
lwd
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Re: Luftwaffe Flight From Russia to China.

Post by lwd »

Simon_G wrote:
lwd wrote:
Ronald Lameck wrote: and numerous claims of such flights being made constitute what any judge would regard as a "prima facie" case.
Only if the claims are independent I've seen nothing to suggest they were.
Independent of what LWD?
??? Are you really that unfamiliar with the terminology? If so it brings any analysis you've performed to question.
Here is an example:
Individual A reports that xxx is on yyy. Individual B reads A's report and writes it up in his blog. Individual C reads 's report as well and writes it up in a report. Individual D read's C's report and writes it up in a book. There are now by some methods of counting 4 claims that xxx is on yyy. However they are not independent as they all are based on A's initial report so in effect they count as 1 claim.
lwd
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Re: Luftwaffe Flight From Russia to China.

Post by lwd »

Simon_G wrote:... Springs on the island bubble up Plutonium which is quite odd since it is generally not a naturally occurring element.
I guess it depends on what you mean "generally" or perhaps the quantities "bubbled up". Looking at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium#Occurrence
It does appar to be naturally occuring, at least in small quantities.
The fuel drums are a mystery worthy of some serious consideration since they would not have been flown to that location but cached there by a ship.
What lead you to that conclusion?
Simon_G
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Re: Luftwaffe Flight From Russia to China.

Post by Simon_G »

lwd wrote:
Simon_G wrote:
lwd wrote: Independent of what LWD?
??? Are you really that unfamiliar with the terminology? If so it brings any analysis you've performed to question.
Here is an example:
Individual A reports that xxx is on yyy. Individual B reads A's report and writes it up in his blog. Individual C reads 's report as well and writes it up in a report. Individual D read's C's report and writes it up in a book. There are now by some methods of counting 4 claims that xxx is on yyy. However they are not independent as they all are based on A's initial report so in effect they count as 1 claim.
Easily solved LWD... Here are some independent sources. Now will you stop your drivel of protest?

http://gorod.tomsk.ru/index-1385312600.php

http://www.kurilstour.ru/expeditions.shtml?e8

http://www.kurilstour.ru/e8.shtml

http://www.sakhalin.info/franctireur/50864/
Simon_G
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Re: Luftwaffe Flight From Russia to China.

Post by Simon_G »

lwd wrote:
Simon_G wrote:... Springs on the island bubble up Plutonium which is quite odd since it is generally not a naturally occurring element.
What lead you to that conclusion?
If I had intended to draw a conclusion I would have stated it. The only conclusion I can draw LWD is that you have hysterical over-reaction to anything I say
Simon_G
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Re: Junkers missions to Japan, etc.....

Post by Simon_G »

seendcleeve wrote:Didn't the Luftwaffe deliver some indian parachutists to Persia in 1941 or 42

Would that not have been in Ju290/390


Erich wrote:Sorry friend but there were no heavy Ju 290/390 flights to the orient. It is all a myth !

E
There was a documented KG200 Junkers Ju-290 flight from Vienna to Iraq delivering Brandenberger parachutists in November 1944.

Yes There was also a mission to Kabul to drop parachutists to collect Subhandra Bose Chandra too.
Simon_G
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Re: Luftwaffe Flight From Russia to China.

Post by Simon_G »

behblc wrote:Would anyone have any information regarding long range flights from occupied Russia to Japanese occupied China made by long range "Ju" aircraft ?
Any info. would be welcomed , number of flights , cargo flight plans routes. crew details , much of this has probably been "lost".
The image of this "west" meets "east" one cannot deny is impressive.
Thanks to all in advance.
Not so much relating to Junkers aircraft however it is well known that at least one Fw200K and possibly three examples operated to Harbin Manchuria from Petsamo Finland up to 1944, operated by Kommando Rowehl 1.(F)/Ob.d.L (Luftflotte 2) - predecessor to KG200.

When the OSS parachuted the Operation Flamingo team into Harbin (Operation Cardinal to Mukden) in August 1945 to liberate Allied prisoners of War they received accounts of sightings of this Fw200 seen at Harbin.

What is known about this aircraft is that it may have been one of three Fw200K aircraft. One we do know of was W.Nr.200 0001 the first Fw200 B1 or the V4 prototype, with military markings BS+AF. This aircraft met with a mishap at Jever on 23 November 1939 when two engines failed in a take-off run, however that aircraft was repaired and then converted with two extra fuel tanks to provide a range of 5,000nm using the civil registration D-ACWG. Possibly two sister Fw200K aircraft are also identified using the civil registrations D-AIIN and D-ANVI.

D-ACWG and masqueraded as a Deutsch Luft Hansa (DLH) aircraft “Holstein” and on missions to Japan it was flown by pilot ObLt Wolfgang Nebel and navigator RLM Flug Kapitan Vogel.
lwd
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Re: Luftwaffe Flight From Russia to China.

Post by lwd »

Simon_G wrote:
lwd wrote:
Simon_G wrote:
lwd wrote: Independent of what LWD?
??? Are you really that unfamiliar with the terminology? If so it brings any analysis you've performed to question.
Here is an example:
Individual A reports that xxx is on yyy. Individual B reads A's report and writes it up in his blog. Individual C reads 's report as well and writes it up in a report. Individual D read's C's report and writes it up in a book. There are now by some methods of counting 4 claims that xxx is on yyy. However they are not independent as they all are based on A's initial report so in effect they count as 1 claim.
Easily solved LWD... Here are some independent sources. Now will you stop your drivel of protest?
http://gorod.tomsk.ru/index-1385312600.php
http://www.kurilstour.ru/expeditions.shtml?e8
http://www.kurilstour.ru/e8.shtml
http://www.sakhalin.info/franctireur/50864/
Are they? I don't read Russian so it's hard to tell but I note two are from the same base website which is a pretty strong indicator that they are not independent.

It's a legitmate question the fact that you dismiss it as "drivel" suggest that your case is weak. The same is indicated by your shotgun sourcing.
Simon_G wrote:
lwd wrote:
Simon_G wrote:... Springs on the island bubble up Plutonium which is quite odd since it is generally not a naturally occurring element.
What lead you to that conclusion?
If I had intended to draw a conclusion I would have stated it.
But you did.
First of all you said it was "odd". Depending on the geology and the level of Plutonium this may or may not be the case.
You also said Plutonium isn't a naturally occurring element when it is.
Two conclusions on your part one unsupported one demonstrably false.
he only conclusion I can draw LWD is that you have hysterical over-reaction to anything I say
Now a personal attack. My reactions to your posts are hardly hysterical and certainly not over-reactions. You on the other hand appear to be getting desperate.
lwd
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Re: Luftwaffe Flight From Russia to China.

Post by lwd »

Simon_G wrote: Not so much relating to Junkers aircraft however it is well known that at least one Fw200K and possibly three examples operated to Harbin Manchuria from Petsamo Finland up to 1944, operated by Kommando Rowehl 1.(F)/Ob.d.L (Luftflotte 2) - predecessor to KG200.
Interesting. Well known? A quick search turns up nothing at all about it. Care to produce some sources.
When the OSS parachuted the Operation Flamingo team into Harbin (Operation Cardinal to Mukden) in August 1945 to liberate Allied prisoners of War they received accounts of sightings of this Fw200 seen at Harbin.
Sources please.
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