Luftwaffe vs Swiss air force?!

[Rolf Steiner]

Never heard of this before but it's interesting, if it's true... according to 1980s Sphere paperback by Will Berthold, around 1940, LW bomber went off course and violated Swiss airspace, the response being Swiss fighters (which were what?) giving it a bit of a hammering and said bomber having to make an emergency landing back home... true?!

[phylo_roadking]

I wouldn't doubt it; it happened far more often than you might think! From Wiki...

Nazi Germany repeatedly violated Swiss airspace. During the Invasion of France, German aircraft violated Swiss airspace no fewer than 197 times. In several air incidents, the Swiss (using 10 Bf-109 D, 80 Bf-109 E fighters bought from Germany and some Morane-Saulnier M.S.406s built under license in Switzerland), shot down 11 Luftwaffe planes between 10 May 1940 and 17 June 1940. Germany protested diplomatically on 5 June 1940, and with a second note on 19 June 1940 which contained clear threats. Hitler was especially furious when he saw that German equipment was shooting down German pilots. He said they would respond "in another matter". On 20 June 1940, the Swiss air force was ordered to stop intercepting planes violating Swiss airspace. Swiss fighters began to instead force intruding aircraft to land at Swiss airfields. Anti-aircraft units still operated. Later, Hitler unsuccessfully sent saboteurs to destroy airfields.

[Beershark]

I wouldn't doubt it; it happened far more often than you might think! From Wiki...

Nazi Germany repeatedly violated Swiss airspace. During the Invasion of France, German aircraft violated Swiss airspace no fewer than 197 times. In several air incidents, the Swiss (using 10 Bf-109 D, 80 Bf-109 E fighters bought from Germany and some Morane-Saulnier M.S.406s built under license in Switzerland), shot down 11 Luftwaffe planes between 10 May 1940 and 17 June 1940. Germany protested diplomatically on 5 June 1940, and with a second note on 19 June 1940 which contained clear threats. Hitler was especially furious when he saw that German equipment was shooting down German pilots. He said they would respond "in another matter". On 20 June 1940, the Swiss air force was ordered to stop intercepting planes violating Swiss airspace. Swiss fighters began to instead force intruding aircraft to land at Swiss airfields. Anti-aircraft units still operated. Later, Hitler unsuccessfully sent saboteurs to destroy airfields.

Can we have more info. (espec. sources, please ) on your claim that Hitler sent saboteurs to destroy Swiss airfields.
This is, after all, an extraordinarily unlikely scenario, given the importance of Switzerland to ALL parties in WW2.

[bf109 emil]

a listing of German aircraft and crew interned in Switzerland in WW2

German Aircraft and crew
interned in Switzerland during WW2

Date = yy-mm-dd
C = Crashed
L = Landed
INT = Interned
KIA = Killed in Action
? = Fate unknown


Date Location C/L Type Fate Crew

1940

40-??-?? Zeithain nr. Riesa EL He 70 ? INT, code'WL-OBWH'
Any information available?
see picture


40-04-21 Basel/Birsfelden L Do 17Z 4 INT
40-05-16 Kemletten C He 111P 4 INT
40-06-01 Lignieres C He 111H 5 KIA
40-06-01 Oltingen C He 111 ?
40-06-02 Ursins b. Yverdon C He 111P 4 INT + 1 KIA, of KG55
40-06-08 Triengen b.Aarau C Bf 110 2 KIA
40-06-08 Nunningen L Bf 110 2 INT
40-09-11 Frauenfeld L Go 145A 1 INT
40-11-13 Willerzell C Do 17Z ?
40-11-22 Jüppen b.Döttingen L Bü 131B 1 INT

1941

41-03-18 Klingnau L Go 145A 1 INT
41-07-24 Dübendorf L Ju W34 4 INT
41-08-10 Biel/Bözingen L Fw 58B 2 INT
41-09-05 Basel/Birsfelden L Go 145A 1 INT
41-11-30 Basel/Birsfelden L Go 145A 1 INT

1942

42-03-25 Basel/Birsfelden L Ju W34 3 INT. aircraft code 'B'
42-07-25 Bern/Belpmoos L Bf 109F 1 INT
42-07-25 Bern/Belpmoos L Bf 109F 1 INT

1943

43-02-12 Bière L Go 145A 1 INT
43-03-05 Basel/Birsfelden L Bü 131A 1 INT
43-03-19 Samaden L Fi 156C 2 INT
43-03-19 Samaden L Fi 156C 2 INT
43-05-15 Basel/Birsfelden L Kl 35B 1 INT
43-10-21 Dübendorf L Ju 88C 4 INT, 'H' of JG54

1944

44-01-01 Moutier C Fiat RS14 2 KIA
44-02-05 Singen C Do 215 ?
44-02-06 Pruntrut CL Bf 110G,'VQ+KL' 2 INT
Due to snowstorm and lack of fuel
44-02-14 Andelfingen C Fiat CR42 1 INT
Due to heavy snowstorm
44-03-15 Dübendorf L Bf 110G 2 INT
44-03-29 Samaden L Bf 109G 1 INT
44-04-04 Bonfol b. Pruntrut L Bü 181 1 INT
44-04-26 Wienacht/St.Gallen C Ju 188 ?
44-04-28 Dübendorf L Bf 110G-4/R7 3 INT. of III./NJG 6. 'C9+EN'
pilot: Hptm. Johnen.
Plane was destroyed by the Swiss
in return the Germans delivered
12 new Bf109G's.
44-05-02 Basel/Birsfelden L Do 217N 3 INT
44-06-06 Baulmes b. Yverdon C Ju 52 5 KIA
44-06-14 Basel/Birsfelden L Bü 131 1 INT
44-07-16 Bern/Beundenfeld L Avia Fl 3 1 INT
44-07-19 Jaunpass C Bf 110 ?
44-07-27 Locarno L Caproni 148 2 INT
44-08-17 Benken/BL L Bü 181 1 INT
44-08-20 Bern L Bf 109G 1 INT
44-08-20 Bern L Bf 109G 1 INT
44-10-26 Ronwill/St. Gallen L Bü 181 1 INT
44-12-17 Affeltrangen L Bf 109G 1 INT

1945

45-03-26 Werthenstein C Bf 109G 1 INT
45-04-12 Bürglen/TG L Bü 181C 1 INT
45-04-18 Dübendorf L Bü 181 2 INT
45-04-20 Payerne L Bf 108B 3 INT
45-04-25 Dübendorf L Me 262A 1 INT
45-04-26 Dübendorf L Fw 44F 1 INT
45-04-26 Oberriet L Bü 181 1 INT
45-04-26 Oberriet L Bü 181 2 INT
45-04-27 Emmen L Bf 108D 4 INT
45-04-27 Dübendorf L Si 204D 4 INT
45-04-30 Dübendorf L Ju 88G 6 INT
45-05-07 Belp L Si 204D, 'DL-NT' 5 INT, aircraft was of the Mufti of
Jerusalem. The Mufti used the a/c
to flee to Switzerland.
45-05-08 Chur L Fi 156C 3 INT

sourcehttp://www.airwarweb.net/interned_german.php

[phylo_roadking]

Can we have more info. (espec. sources, please ) on your claim that Hitler sent saboteurs to destroy Swiss airfields.
This is, after all, an extraordinarily unlikely scenario, given the importance of Switzerland to ALL parties in WW2

Nine Nazi saboteurs were arrested on the 16th of June 1940 - in the midle of the "Swiss Blitz" - with large amounts of explosives destined for Swiss air bases. I don't know very much about the incident as yet, but they may not necessarily have been "German" - there were some VERY strong and active pro-Nazi organisations among the Swiss volkdeutsche

[Rolf Steiner]

Thanks for the info on this, gents. It's an aspect of the conflict I'd been pretty much unaware of. I think a few countries came to regret some of their previous aircraft sales - from what I remember a few Hurricanes ended up with Axis satellite forces? And am I completely confused here or did Germany let a few planes go to the soviets at some stage pre 1941?