Largest Post World War One Polish Battle

German Freikorps, Reichsheer and Reichsmarine 1919-1934.

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Postby sid guttridge » Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:39 am

Hi Schultz,

I wouldn't rely too heavily on Soldier of Fortune unless you want to find out the Five Best Ways to Garrotte your Granny with Dental Floss.

When I was in Rhodesia in the late 1970s SoF wrote numerous articles on our security forces, most of which bore only limited relationship to the reality. However, they were so gung-ho in our favour that they were good recruitment propaganda. The trouble was that they brought in a good number of barking, neanderthal right wingers.

I had an American sergeant who was recruited through SoF in mid 1979. He arrived with a world map coloured red for Communist countries and pink for the pinkos. There was little enough of it that was neither colour. He also sat in his chair with his feet on the table eating sandwiches with his fingers whilst say with complete lack of irony "You know, Sir, these Africans are so primitive that they eat their food with their hands". His main claim to fame was that while working in a Pizzeria in Florida he found that it was using imported Yugoslav green peppers and reported the proprietors to the John Birch Society. I finally had him discharged for refusing to donate his O+ blood to one of our African soldiers "because I came here to kill those people, not to save them." Thanks for nothing SoF.

There. Got that off my chest after 25 years.

Sorry.

Please continue on thread.

Cheers,

Sid.
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Postby Schultz » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:40 am

I understand your suspicions on SoF the majority of there articles are out there a bit, I doubt all there articles with some suspicion (even an article they did on conditions at the Berlin Wall where excuse the pun off the wall ) I was stationed there myself fer awhile.
But from a few other things i've ran into discuss the pilots that fought for Poland. I'll see what else i can dig up.

P.S. I did some weapons training in Germany and France in the early '80's met some guys from Rhodesia, seemed like great guys an tough troops all my respect to you.

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Postby Schultz » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:11 pm

The battle for warsaw in 1920 was at least if not biggest the most decisive started August 18th 1920 Poland got the Russians running an never let go.
50,000 Polish casualties and 15,000 kia Russians, 65,000 p.o.w. another 30,000 crossed in to Prussia an surrendered to the Germans.

The article in SoF was a book review i have discovered titled "Flight of Eagles" which talks about an American volunteer squadron in Polish sevice.
No. 7 Squadron "Kosciuszko" named after the Polish Genral who helped during our American Revolution Major Cedric E. Fauntleroy was adviser to Polish Air Force and the one that i never new about was Captain Merian C. Cooper (Lt. Colonel in Polish A.F.) who was commander of No.7 Sqdn. is the same Merian Cooper who created and produced "King Kong" and "Mighty Joe Young". He served as Claire Chennaults Chief of Staff in China as well in WW2.

[url]http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/B/Battle-of-Warsaw.htm

[url]http://www.polandinexile.com/airforce.htm



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Postby Henrik » Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:22 pm

"the germans tried by example to attack the Poznan area , or Posen in german, the 2nd february 1919 "


The Prussian city and province was called Posen, not "Poznan", and was a part of Germany. I do not understand how Germany could "attack" a part of Germany. It was an illegal rebellion there by february 1919, and the legal authorities of Posen had the right to intervene and try to make order in their own country.
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Postby Mad Volksdeutscher » Sat Mar 13, 2004 8:27 pm

Schultz:

When the crazies over at SOF wrote a HISTORICAL article, they usually got their facts straight. (It was their reporting of current small wars that...well, you know...)

Got a kick out of the utterly charming concept of "clotheslining" Bolsheviks* with their landing gear once they'd run out of MG ammo. Seems the Soviets got a demented version of that concept stuck in their heads and back during Big Two tried a variation in which fighter pilots what were out of ammo but had no confirmed kills yet would RAM INTO Axis a/c. With usually fatal results :shock:

*OBTW: Yours truly, The MVD has nothing at all against Russians or Ukies.** Bolsheviks :evil: & Soviets :evil: , on the other hand... :x Grrr! (Little teensy Cold War flashback moment there....)

**And Poles are okay. But Bosanskas are MUCH prettier! (I put this final comment in for Pawel 202. Whom I am officially teasing for NOT being at last weekend's soccer game! :wink: )
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+ Zivjela Hrvatska! +
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Postby Fredd » Mon May 31, 2004 5:32 am

Henrik wrote:The Prussian city and province was called Posen, not "Poznan", and was a part of Germany. I do not understand how Germany could "attack" a part of Germany. It was an illegal rebellion there by february 1919, and the legal authorities of Posen had the right to intervene and try to make order in their own country.


Dackel Staffel wrote:First I want to say that it was normal and fair that the poles had their own independent state after the world war I.
Agree for the Poznan area (Prussian then german since 1772, in 1910 1 973 000 unhabitants with only 679 000 germans so 1/3 german 2/3 pole)


So Henrik I am fully aware God gave us a free will so it includes will to be an ignorant. However would you be so kind and read posts previous been wtitten by others in past. Eventually, are you questioning figures quoted by Dackell Staffel?

Regards!
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Postby Soldat7128 » Mon May 31, 2004 11:53 am

Benoit Douville wrote:Dackel Staffel,

You mentionned that the Poles stopped the Soviets in august 1920. It was an amazing victory called "The Miracle of the Vistula" If the the Poles had not stopped them under Pilsudski, the Western Europe would have been in great danger to fall under communism regime from advancing Soviet troops.

Regards


It's important to note however that the Poles initiated the conflict: (taken from http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyc ... udski.html):

>>>In 1920, the Polish army under Pilsudski invaded the Soviet Ukraine, pushing back the Red Army and occupying Kiev. Pilsudski claimed that he had made a pre-emptive strike against Bolshevik expansionism. The Soviets counter-attacked, recapturing the Ukraine and advancing through Poland, until their defeat at the Battle of Warsaw (known to Poles as the Miracle on the Vistula). Pilsudski won considerable gains for Poland in the Treaty of Riga (1921).

I think the key points there are the time-frame of events and the phrase "occupying Kiev"!
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Postby Fredd » Mon May 31, 2004 12:20 pm

Eurasiacan hasn't you forgotten about something. How about deal with Petliura BEFORE the attack. Poland recognised him as legal government of Ukraine. In March 1920 as a head of Ukrainian Peoples Republic he signed alliance in Lublin with Polish government recognising Polish right to Lviv and Galicia.

So as far as Polish and Ukrainian soldiers fought together, by no means it was an invasion. It was a struggle against Boshevick's threat. Poland never wanted capture Kijev to herself. Political plan of Pilsudski included free Ukraine in aliance with Poland.
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Postby Soldat7128 » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:27 pm

Fredd wrote:Eurasiacan hasn't you forgotten about something. How about deal with Petliura BEFORE the attack. Poland recognised him as legal government of Ukraine. In March 1920 as a head of Ukrainian Peoples Republic he signed alliance in Lublin with Polish government recognising Polish right to Lviv and Galicia.

So as far as Polish and Ukrainian soldiers fought together, by no means it was an invasion. It was a struggle against Boshevick's threat. Poland never wanted capture Kijev to herself. Political plan of Pilsudski included free Ukraine in aliance with Poland.


Sounds like a "marriage of convenience"--like the Poles did it in order to gain territory (I know western Ukraine used to be part of Poland) and get back at Russians/Communists...a relatively benign invasion, if one could use the term at all, but also not an act of altruism.

(I wonder how long Pilsudski's plan would have satisfied the Ukrainians had it succeeded. In other words, how long it would have taken, all other things being equal, before Ukrainians decided that Lviv/Galicia should be "returned" to them.)
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Postby Fredd » Sat Jun 12, 2004 7:49 am

Schultz wrote:I recall reading an article in an old issue of Soldier of Fortune years ago about American and German as well as British pilots who flew for Poland against the Bolsheviks. It discussed a large battle near Warsaw i believe.
I'll see if i can relocate the article and see what it has to say about battles of the period.
It was quite an interesting article which discussed at one stage of the battle there was no ammo for the aircraft so the pilots flew low knocking calvary off there horses with there landing gear.
Schultz


About US aviators fighting for Poland against Bolshevicks you can read here http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=51835

Regards but maybe 'Soldier of Fortune' isn't the best source of historical informations.......
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Postby Henrik » Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:36 am

Fredd wrote:
Henrik wrote:The Prussian city and province was called Posen, not "Poznan", and was a part of Germany. I do not understand how Germany could "attack" a part of Germany. It was an illegal rebellion there by february 1919, and the legal authorities of Posen had the right to intervene and try to make order in their own country.


Dackel Staffel wrote:First I want to say that it was normal and fair that the poles had their own independent state after the world war I.
Agree for the Poznan area (Prussian then german since 1772, in 1910 1 973 000 unhabitants with only 679 000 germans so 1/3 german 2/3 pole)


So Henrik I am fully aware God gave us a free will so it includes will to be an ignorant. However would you be so kind and read posts previous been wtitten by others in past. Eventually, are you questioning figures quoted by Dackell Staffel?

Regards!


It is not relevant. Posen was, is and will be a part of Germany!
Ich bin ein Preuße, will ein Preuße sein!
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Postby Fredd » Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:25 pm

Henrik wrote:It is not relevant. Posen was, is and will be a part of Germany!


It must have been real good stuff you smoked before you wrote your post. :shock: Could you share the knowledge where may I obtain some?
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Postby Musashi » Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:11 pm

Henrik wrote:It is not relevant. Posen was, is and will be a part of Germany!


If it was other forum you would get a warning for this and previous comments.
I see you have taken some drugs lately, because you live out of reality and you talk bullshits. Poznan has been Polish since beginning to 1793 and from 1918 until now. It was German from 1793 to 1918 only. So about 800 years Polish and 125 German. However for you its not important. I have to disappoint you - you have no chance to realize your dreams. IS Poznan a part of Germany now (how you wrote)? Eh... man, you must be very bad at geography. Its enough proof for me you are an idiot. I was there last week and this city was still Polish :D Do you live in Prussia? :shock: Show me such country on the map :D I see you try to be original. Are you supporter of the Endloesung? Don't be ashamed :D I see you are more fundamentalistic than whole al-Hezbollah organization :D

To Moderators
I want to check your reaction on my stupid post and get to know why some people can provoke others without any warning and some not.
I don't intend to write more stupid and offensive posts having no reason, but I don't understand why some people are allowed not to obey forum rules.
Last edited by Musashi on Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby leopard 2 » Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:14 am

What is the link between the question of Posen/Poznan and the endlösung?
Can't you let Hendrik have another idee than yours???
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Postby Musashi » Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:40 am

leopard 2 wrote:Can't you let Hendrik have another idee than yours???

Negative.
I don't know what you mean by his "ideas"? As I know offending other people is violating guidelines on civilised forums. Look at his brilliant "idea" - he claims Poznan is in Germany NOW. He wrote clearly "IS" :D So what do you think about it? Do you call it "idea"? He is an idiot who does't know the world he is living and don't support such ideas not to make youself ridiculous. It looks as if somebody claimed Tel-Aviv or Jerusalem are in Syria or Iran now and told so to Israelis. So please, don't make me laugh. It would be simple denying the facts. I hope you caught my point :D
Cheers,
Chris
Last edited by Musashi on Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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