Making peace in 1918

[blackfire]

How long did it take Germany from when the leaders decided that they had to make peace until peace was made?

Could someone please give me a time table?

[sid guttridge]

Can you clarify what you mean by "Peace"? The fighting stopped on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918, but this was only an armistice. Peace was signed the following year at Versailles. Which are you after?

[blackfire]

From the time that the German leaders decided to talk peace till the fighting stopped. How long does it take from when one side decided that it has enough till the men stop fighting.


I would like a timetable.

[mikerock]

If you haven't read it yet, 'The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich' talks about the end of the First World War and the decisions that lead up to the Germans signing the Armistice.

I believe it was only a few days, from the decision to the cease fire, but I can't recall exactly.

Hope that helps.

--Mike

[The Chief]

A little known footnote in most WW1 histories is General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck in the East African Campaign. His forces did not surrender for a couple of weeks after the treaty was signed. There is however a lot of information about that campaign out there.

[Jez]

Can you post the info Chief?

I was reading last week about the attempted supply of the Germans by a Zepplin. This never made it and had to be aborted over Sudan.

A truly amazing technological feat for that time i think!

Regards, Jez

[The Chief]

The Zepplin L-59 took off from Jamboli, Bulgaria, and was not expected to return. The entire zepplin was meant to be salvaged by Von Lettow and his soldiers. Everything from shelters to sleeping bags to boots were to be made from the parts of the aircraft. The airship took off on Sept. 21 1917 and headed south. While over the desert, the ship had a tendency to drop nearly 2000 feet at night. Then recieved a faint message to turn back. Although where this message came from is still unknown, and it could have been for the better since Lettow-Vorbeck had already left German East, and was in Potugese East at the time. So the ship turned back and flew for a total of 95 hours, a record at the time (still?). There's a complete article about it in "The Great War in Africa" by Byron Farwell.

[Jez]

Thanks Cheif.

Jez

[Enrico Cernuschi]

Coming back to the original theme, gentlemen, is better to remeber that the German Government proposed, in Dec. 1916, a general peace agreement without annexations or indemnities. This "white peace" wa s labelled by the British as the great german Peace offensive and was refused by the Entente, except for Russia who said, in Jan. 1917, that this proposal could be discussed as a starting point to end the war. Western immediate pressures on the starving Russia and the corrupt Imperial court put an end at the accidend within days. One of the protagonist of the British underground policy at St. Petersgrad was Sir Samuel Hoare (nicknamed "The reptile" by his collegue and old enemy Churchill), In this same time was active for the same, political purpose, in the Russian capital a brilliant, young major ot the Italian Army Staff, Ugo Cavallero, future Marshal of the Regio Esercito.

Germany government (and the two siamese brothers Hindemburg and Ludendorff too) accepted the idea of a necessary armistice and peace (hoping according President Wilson 14 points) since Aug. 1918. The Allies, however, raised the price, asking always for worste condictions, in Sept. and Oct. 1918.
In Nov. 1918, after the Austrian-Hungary army collapse at Vittorio Veneto Germany (according Ludendorff memories) had no other choice than to accept an immediate armistice as the Wien government sudden surrender opened Southern Germany to an Italian and Allied invasion.

The subsequent German red revolution was only the last nail on the coffin.

As these are the bare facts the question is: a less obstinate and more honest, chivarly (and human) conduct by the British and French government towards the Reich without the 1918 and 1919 famine blackmails (in spite of the correct USA pleas sea traffic of food and medical helps - except for some private, and not sufficient humanitarian private helps, mainy Quackers throught Scandinavia - for the Geran people was still forbidden by the Royal Navy after 11 Nov. 1918 until the final Germany signature of the Versailles Treaty in March 1919) would have let the Germans generals and politicians (Nazi too, like Frick, for example, or even Goering) to get peace in spite of Hitler during the fatal 1943 Summer?
As a matter of fact Nazi resolution was based not only upon the Soviet Union menace but on the terrible records of 1918 and 1919 western bad will too.

A puzzled Enrico

P.S. Let me remember too that the quite different and wiser Italian policy of necessary modest but immediate food relief for Austria and Hungary since Nov. and Dec. 1918 let these two countries to estabilish quite better relations with Rome until the 1938 Anschluss and the 8 Sept. 1943 armistice. My grandfather arrived in Wien yet before the end on Nov. 1918 with an humanitarian Catholic mission assisted by the Regio Esercito men and materials and his description of the local great misery, the hard winter cold and the sudden Christian sentiment of new humanity between the bitter, old enemies in name of a common, future hope of peace and loyalty was a touching one. EC

[Will]

also wasn't there an influenza epidemic sweeping through Germany at the time or shortly after the armistace announcement? don't forget also that the reich was simply incapable of continuing the war in the west with popular anti-war sentiment being a factor in ednding the war-peace


vergeiessmeinincht

[The Chief]

Will,
The flu breakout was spreading across the globe by the time the War ended.
The 1918 "Peace Offensive" pretty much was a last grasp at achieving peace, although Germany was attempting to bring the Entante to the table once the War bogged down into the trenches.

[greenhorn]

The Chief brings to our attention a great hero and true gentleman:
General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck.

I believe the British and South African government had upwards of 50,000 troops commited to East Africa to contain L-V. They only tasted his dust, one of the truely great escapes!

[sid guttridge]

Hi Greenhorn,

About 300,000 assorted British Imperial troops passed through East Africa over 1914-18, so Lettow-Vorbeck's campaign caused Britain very great expense and considerable losses to tropical disease. However, he caused almost no material damage to the neighbouring British colonies and no important contingents of troops were diverted from other theatres at decisve times. For the last two years essentially only locally-raised African troops (mostly the King's African Rifles) were following his dust.

That said, his performance was, indeed, exceptional.

Cheers,

Sid.

[greenhorn]

The idea that a modern army could live off the land and evade the enemy, having no recourse to a supply line, the Allies having all the advantages.....

No doubt lessons were learnt, but I would be interested whether anyone has read histories/biographies of Windgate and his campaign against the Japanese, if Vorbeck's campaign was studied and taken on board.

I just remember reading this book about L-V, about 20 years ago and having to remind myself it wasn't a novel.

[sid guttridge]

Hi Greenhorn,

Lettow-Vorbeck had a home territory until 1916. When he abandoned the conventional defence of German East Africa he had to dismiss most of his remaining forces precisely because he could not support most of them in a guerrilla environment.

At the moment he did that he also ceased to have any wider strategic significance. Although he remained at large, much of the time on Portuguese territory, he was contained by mostly black Anglo-Portuguese forces raised locally. His last two years were a successful exercise in survival but little else. His main impact was made in the period before he went "bush".

Cheers,

Sid.